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Original poster

Which toilets a F to M transgender student should use

191 replies

WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 17:27

DH teaches at an FE college. One of his new students this year is transgender (female to male)
All staff and students are aware of his transgender status. (Not sure about any ops or medications, will ask DH when he gets home)

The student wishes to use the male toilets. Staff had a meeting regarding this issue, trying to avoid any issues with the male students using the toilets at the same time, and decided that the student should NOT use the male toilets, but allocated him use of the disabled toilet instead.

He was offended by this suggestion, as he does not have a disability, and is taking a stance by walking the 10 minute journey to public toilets in town where he can use the male facilities without discrimination.

I think the college should allow him use of the male facilities, DH disagrees, so I am putting it out for the MN jury to decide.

Who is BU?

OP posts:
birdofthenorth · 18/10/2012 19:40

Er, male loos, obviously, as per his preference and new identity, and why on earth is the college even involving itself in where he pees? Is he under 18? Very odd not to mention illegal stance from the college.

whatsforyou · 18/10/2012 19:40

mrsterrypratchett I totally agree most women don't get glammed up every day that is why it is ridiculous that someone wanting to go from M to F should have to. I think it must come from the out dated notion that if you want to be a woman it must be because you like dressing up as a woman and plastering on make up, the old stereotype of the middle aged man wearing his wife's clothes when she is out. Transgender people are made to feel that they have to 'prove' how feminine/masculine they are before getting treatment.
(Just like to say, I'm not an expert on this at all! Just regurgitating what I learnt at training recently, it was quite shocking what some people have experienced by so called professionals Sad)

DameEnidsOrange · 18/10/2012 20:01

Male toilets.

What would people's stance be on gym / swimming changing rooms, where nudity may be an issue?

Canidae · 18/10/2012 20:15

If he identifies as male then it is no ones business what sort of genitals he pees out of.

No one has ever checked that I'm female before I go in the ladies.

MooseLooseaBOOtThisSpookyHouse · 18/10/2012 20:22

Male. Because he is a man.

Original poster
WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 20:30

UPDATE: DH has been home (out again now)

Apparently not all the students are aware that this boy (now aged 16) used to be a girl, just those that went to the same secondary school as him none of whom are doing the same course.

The boy has asked that the college do not disclose his transgender status to his fellow students. If the boy were to use the any of the male toilets in the large institution he could be outed by his ex fellow pupils.

DH denied that the boy was offended by the suggestion that he use the disabled toilet, the boy merely stated that he would rather use the male toilets in the town centre (I just believed that he would have been offended by the suggestion)

Last year there was an incident at the college regarding a MALE to FEMALE trans student using the female toilets and the other female students (and their parents) kicked off about it as they knew her history. She (now 17) uses the disabled toilet. This was one of the issues that the college staff considered when coming to their decision.

OP posts:
Original poster
WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 20:35

And, very interestingly, the secondary school that this boy attended (as a girl to the end of year 11) reopened this September with refurbishments including unisex toilets throughout. This is surely a step forward :)

OP posts:
3bunnies · 18/10/2012 20:36

YABU, I am assuming of course that the college employs male cleaners to clean the male loos and females cleaners to clean the female loos. Wouldn't it be so awful and unheard of to go into a public loo and see a sign saying 'both female and male attendants may clean this toilet'.

Oh sorry forgot for a moment that this is the 21st century and that I have actually even seen a man cleaning in a ladies loo (and it was lovely and clean until ds got his hose out). I fail to spot the difference. A woman can go into clean them, but heaven forbid a FtoM transgender person would go in, shut the door and get on with their buisness. They should buy him a shewee and let him choose to use it where he wants to. YANBU of course.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 18/10/2012 20:42

So are the staff allowing him to use the male toilets now?

If he's living fully as a male, which it sounds like he is, then he has to be allowed to use the men's.

Original poster
WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 20:50

No, he is not allowed to use the male toilets.

OP posts:
OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 18/10/2012 20:53

But that's so mean! As if the poor guy doesn't have enough stuff to deal with! If most other students believe he is male then why on earth can't they let him use the men's?

kim147 · 18/10/2012 20:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notMarlene · 18/10/2012 20:56

If the boy were to use the any of the male toilets in the large institution he could be outed by his ex fellow pupils.

Very little logic there, surely? Trying to force him to use the ladies loos should really help keep his birth gender private hey, obviously the female students won't question the presence of a male Hmm

Original poster
WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 21:00

I don't know. Maybe it is because the college interviewed him as a female, and gave him a place as a female. Or the fact that he is only 16 and not legally able to change sex or name? He has adopted a new male first name during the school holidays but his birth name is his legal name.

OP posts:
Original poster
WongaDotMom · 18/10/2012 21:02

The college have never tried to force him to use the female toilets.

OP posts:
Wowserz129 · 18/10/2012 21:03

How horrible to refuse him to use the male toilets when he identifies himself as a man. He is obv going to have to use a cubicle anyway. He is not disabled either!

How does your DH think that makes him feel if he can't use either male or female toilets?

VivaLeBeaver · 18/10/2012 21:05

College could get the arse sued off them, they need to back down and hope he doesn't take it further.

filetheflightoffancy · 18/10/2012 21:08

I get where Kim147 is coming from. Switch the genders around and ask this question on the FWR boards and you will see why so many people do not identify with 'feminists'.

Of course this guy should be able to use the male toilets.

izzywizzyisbizzy · 18/10/2012 21:12

male

izzywizzyisbizzy · 18/10/2012 21:14

Last year there was an incident at the college regarding a MALE to FEMALE trans student using the female toilets and the other female students (and their parents) kicked off about it as they knew her history. She (now 17) uses the disabled toilet

She should have been supported to use the female toilets, gender reassignment is not a disability.

kim147 · 18/10/2012 21:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 18/10/2012 21:21

If he looks like a male and goes in the female toilets won't that out him? I am assuming he looks and dresses like a boy.

Male toilets. Interesting question raised above about the swimming pool changing rooms... I suppose a cubicle in the male changing rooms...

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 18/10/2012 21:25

kim.

Yes, I would be. I doubt very much they'd be flashing their nude bodies about in those circumstances. I think it would be pretty obvious they were identifying as my gender, and I wouldn't be looking for proof either way.

whatsforyou · 18/10/2012 21:26

They are breaking the law, whether they think they are doing it for good reason or not, they are. I see no reason why he should be 'outed' by using the male toilet, I would think it would cause more confusion why he is using the disabled one if not disabled.
Also, i am a feminist and would have no issue with a m to f person using the ladies so not all feminists share the same viewpoint!
Anyone that does have a problem with this needs to look at their own issues. Why can't people just be a bit nicer to each other and think about how they would feel, it's not that hard Confused

izzywizzyisbizzy · 18/10/2012 21:33

kim yes I would

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