To wonder why the elevenplus forum parents put their DC through it when

[safflower]

they are so stressed themselves?

Apparently it is results day. There are parents beside themselves whilst they wait for the 4pm email. Some have had children in tears this morning worrying if they have made it. If the parents are suffering, I cannot imagine what those poor children must be feeling.

safflower yes I did take the 11+ (but went to a direct grant school rather than a grammar on the back of it).

All eight of my DC have now passed into a superselective and I don't think any of them felt under 'huge pressure to perform'. None of them showed any signs of stress but I don't think any were complacent either. They all also really like their school and have done well. The school itself isn't obviously pressurizing either, despite getting fabulous results. I think these stereotypes can be overdone.

I've only asked an old teacher friend to help with the younger four in a situation where their primary teaching falls short. For the youngest one that means where one teacher is teaching four year groups all in one classroom where the class includes some seriously challenging pupils who do their level best to distract. I like the teacher a lot, but the conditions she's expected to teach in are dire. FWIW DD4 is continuing to have an hour or so a week with this same friend until the end of the year, since the point isn't directly or solely to do with the 11+.

wow! 8 dc passing! That is quite a feat tbh. I would have thought there would still be pressure due to the fact that 5 or 6 siblings had all passed and now it's my turn sort of thing.
But well done to all yours!

Yes I think there is that pressure as soon as one older sibling passes tbh and clearly that increases with numbers. That said, DD4 thinks the next one up is so unspeakably thick it bolstered her confidence, which helped :)

I think parents can make the difference between what is experienced as stressful and what is not.

My Dc are constantly doing things that other parents declare 'too much pressure' or 'damaging'... but they are both bloody horizontal about much of it because they know that little of any real import rides on it.

That said, personality must play its part. DH and I both absorb tight deadlines etc with little fuss. We've probaby passed this along to the kids.

I grew up in a county that didn't have the 11+ (I always thought of it as being something old people used to do when they were kids, I was shocked when I heard it was still going!).

I now live in Salisbury which is weirdy-town when it comes to grammar schools as far as I can work out... I dread my DD getting to school age and I actually want to move to a different area based purely on this.

Cracks me up when posters say that their grammar has the best results. Duh, of course it does! As would any school which cherry picks only the brightest of pupils! The fact is, if your child is very bright, they'll get the straight A's regardless.

I have no idea why we're sending ds2 to the grammar because I agree with autumn tbh. Our second choice school (which I preferred to the grammar in many ways) seems a place where it's okay to do well - whatever the area of curriculum. Their GCSE results aren't great (because it's the sort of area where a lot of kids do equivalents instead I would guess) but their A level results are just behind the grammars and their value added scores are excellent.

The two school are very different and my ideal school would be a mix of the two.

It's never easy, my main aim was for ds2 to negotiate the 11 plus without emerging feeling bad about himself or his abilities.

What I'm saying is that I think this assumption that academic success is only valued in grammar schools is dangerous tbh. I think a lot of schools have changed enormously over the last ten years or so.

I think the fact that grammar schools get enter results make people think that they are better schools, when quite often they are not.

There is the point that they will get better results because (especially the superselectives) they can guarantee that they have children who come from families that are supportive of education and will provide all the help that a child needs. They can also guarantee that all their children are academically strong.

But there is so much more to it IMO. I have one child at a SS and one child at our local comp, and I honestly believe they are both at the right school for them.

People seem to forget that a grammar education isn't actually a better standard of education, it's just an academic education. The child I have at GS only studies the traditionally academic subjects, he does very little art, IT, cookery, and that's fine because he isn't interested in that anyway. My other child is equally as bright, has achieved the same or higher marks in end of year tests and SATs, but he loves doing practical subjects and would have hated being at the GS. Especially as our local school is outstanding with an excellent reputation, I strongly believe he would not have received a better education at the GS.

A GS is only suitable for a certain type of child. Highly academic.

If your child is not highly academic you are doing him/her no favours by sending them there.

They may struggle to keep up. have low self esteem because they are never in the top half of the class. And believe me, it is important when you are in the thick of it at a GS to be at the top. The competition amongst GS children is immense. They have been competing for the prized place in the school, and it goes on. For years.

I would implore you to consider the above before you make a decision on the 11 plus. It really might be something you want, and I can understand that as a parent we all want the best possible education for our DC, but is it really right for your dc.

safflower I don't really recognise your description of a grammar. There are 164 grammars still existing and there's a wide variety of types amongst them.

I wouldn't say that all my DC are 'highly academic' by any stretch but they're all somewhere on the bright spectrum. None are viciously competitive - the youngest is possibly. My take on it is that you have to be bright enough but there really is no need to think a child has to be exceptional. There just aren't enough exceptional kids to go round. I'm not at all sure why you think all students at grammars are somehow bereft if they're not in the top half of the grammar. What does it matter? 30 kids in a class, 15 will be the 'bottom' half. In the national context those kids will still be doing really well and arguably better than if they were 'top' at the local comp. Depends on the kid and the comp, doesn't it?

Four of mine have now moved on to university and it's the same thing. A good university (they're all at the same one) but I doubt any are at the 'top'. Honestly, they don't seem to care less. It's entirely possible to have a recognition of doing fine without always having to beat everyone else.

Safflower, that is not the case here in Trafford. The grammar school ds1 has passed for is certainly academic but not highly competitively so. Out of his class ds1 has always held his own but isn't massively academic, just bright, and there are 3 other of his class who have also passed for the grammar - all about his level I would say. His best friend from his old school has passed - again he is about his level.

I passed for the same grammar when I was his age but also passed for a private girls school which my parents sent me to because it is one of the best in the country. I loved it there. I am still in touch with about 30 out of the 60 girls in our year. DH went to a local grammar school again one of the best in the country, he isn't massively academic but he is very sporty and he held his own that way and was very happy there.

I wouldn't say that tutored children from state primary schools will struggle at our grammar schools because all the kids I know have been tutored to get them used to the format and also as someone else mentioned, they have to do 2 years of maths in 1 year because a lot of the maths they will cover in year 6 at school. The ones who struggled at my private school were the ones from the prep who might not have been the brightest but had been put through the prep school to make sure they got into the secondary school. I think the less bright kids from local private preps who have been spoon fed the 11 plus for the last 2/3 years to make sure they get into the grammar will be the ones who struggle.

Well in the GS I attended which is now one of the top Super selective (whatever that means) in the country, it most certainly is. My brother attended the boys equivalent which nowadays one more or less has to have full marks to get a sniff at the door. So maybe there are differing ones up and down the country but this is my personal experience (albeit a loooong time ago!)

Yes, grammar schools vary massively and while some might be highly academic, many - like the one in Essex my son attends - are not.

Before he went there, I heard rumours about 2/3 hours of homework every night - that hasn't materialised. I was also warned it would be full of only very middle class children from private schools - this isn't the case either.

Ah well I stand corrected. Sorry I just presumed they were all the same up and down the country.

The only prep my DC did for the 11+ was the pack of test papers we purchased from WH Smith. They both did the same - 4 weeks before the exam they did a paper a week in the summer hols.

I do not believe in coaching, I know several children who have not passed, despite their parents spending lots of money on tutors. I refused to let mine do the 'test' papers any earlier than 4 weeks before, most children round here are being tutored from TWO YEARS!! before the exam.

Luckily both passed, one with a very high score and so I felt confident they would cope at GS. They are enjoying their time at GS and when I see them with their friends I know they are in the right school for them.

It is academic, but there are some children who need this stimulus and I for one am glad they have the choice, for that is what it is a choice.

Passing the 11+ gives children choices; they don't have to go to GS if they pass but it allows them to have the chance if they wish to do so.

Well I'd refine that a little further. Mine are all at, or have been to, or are about to go to a super selective. Due to the demographics, it's not quite as selective as one of the top London super selectives though. But with one or two exceptions it gets the same results five and seven years on, without overt pressure. That's not only interesting to me, it's also a relief - I want my DC to enjoy their years.

It's a good achievement to get into one of these schools but it really doesn't take a small Einstein. It seems that a lot of parents on these threads over estimate what it takes. That attitude may put off ordinary grounded parents of ordinary grounded kids from applying. Which is a shame.

Well it's quite refreshing at last to have a thread where parents are saying yes, my child is pretty clever but not off the scale and hasn't been tutored to within an inch of his life.

The precious threads make for tough reading. And don't seem to reflect reality. I haven't ventured as far as the 11+forum though - is it much worse?

The cleverer one of my two is a lazy little devil and his father who is living his life vicariously through his genius child is going to be disappointed if he doesn't get all A* next year at GCSE.

I've never looked at the 11+ forum on here, just went my own way about it

Yellowtip I'm intrigued at 4 of yours all at the same uni! Must make it easier when you visit??!

It seems that a lot of parents on these threads over estimate what it takes. That attitude may put off ordinary grounded parents of ordinary grounded kids from applying. Which is a shame.

Yes that was what I was trying to say earlier. You can get a child through the tests yourself, with some preparation (but without spending £££'s), and your child doesn't need to be a genius. If they need years and years of expensive tuition to pass it's probably not going to be the school for them.

Eldest has graduated now Horsemad but this year the next three live in rooms about 200 yards apart along the sams street so yes, relatively a doddle. It would help if they'd go and come back on the same day too, but there are always reasons not to, apparently.

It's good for their younger sibs to go up and stay though. Two are doing that next week.