My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

God yes. People shouting at each other on an AIBU thread. Awful and shocking.....

'batwingGirl if you omitted in your OP your friend's son's condition, the replies would have been vastly different.'

I think this just about highlights the level of ignorance shown generally on this thread tbh. Unfortunately I don't have as much patience as saintlyjimjams and others have shown.

Children with SN cannot be expected to behave like NT children because they are not NT. And, often in the case of a child with ASD in my experience, the function of, say aggressive behaviour would be entirely different to the function of aggressive behaviour in a NT child.

Is it really so hard to understand that? And that is why the OP has got the replies she has. Because she (and loads of others on this thread) demonstrate a distinct lack of empathy for a disabled child(ren) and also she can't even be bothered to explain to her son that this boy is like this because he has ASD, never mind explain what ASD is.

I am with Pag, I am surprised at this school full of aggressive bullying children with ASD, my DD herself has severe ASD and is gentle as a lamb, and when I go to her school I am always approached by lovely children who want to hold my hand and be affectionate, there are one or two children with challenging behaviour but its not the majority.

perceptionreality thanks for the name calling but you missed my point spectacularly. Which was that in my opinion (and while I realise it differs from yours, I still am allowed to express it as much as you are).... The OP's real issue is the communication problems between two adult women in this friendship.

people being angry with your opinion does not equal them saying you are not allowed to say it...

Agree there must be some sort of undermining awful culture of aggressive bullying at the school.

I'm dismayed by some attitudes on this thread but not surprised. The world really isn't a fair place. I do think tolerance should boil down to the simplest of things really...choosing your attitude and your reactions but I think as a parent you are going to want to give more guidance.

But where I believe you can get it right as parent is to question, to enquire but it does not mean blind acceptance either. So if there is some uncomfortable behaviour on a play date then that needs to be dealt with but it would be whatever the situation.

But the journeys that we take as people of all ages and abilities entail helping people confront and overcome their discomfort or intolerance or not as the case may be.

I think tolerance needs to be learnt. But it also means reaching out.

Got to say I really 100% get the post from saintlyjimjams Sat 20-Oct-12 10:16:42

What I'm really uncomfortable is this value assigned to children. The sweeping generalisation by Venus and that is how it comes across about "normal" versus "SN" children, boxed in neatly, the "creatives" versus the "special". Crikey!

I think asking your children to play with children who aren't their particular friends is normal, but not all the time. The odd visit to friends who have children you don't much love, or are a bit aggressive or simply don't get on is fine, IMO, but not the extent to which has arisen in this situation.

I agree with Pchip that this situation is really the OP's friends fault and very little about SN. The problem is that the OP's friend is depending very heavily on the OP, not happy to adapt to her needs too (so children playing in full view, no upstairs, doing activities not free play) and is also not upfront or honest about the situation, which to me would make conversations such as 'can we keep the children in the room with us?' much easier. The friend's denial is impacting very negatively on the OP and her child, and unless she was happy to make minor adaptations which are to me, completely reasonable, I wouldn't be happy with someone coming round my house and their child making my child cry a lot/start to dread the visits, whatever the reason. I think as the adult, it's fine to set out the basis on which you are happy to meet up and actually the OP has been more than accommodating in terms of thinking of solutions, none of which the friend has gone for.

As for all those who say 'take me, take my child', do you really never socialise without your children? I look foward to a bit of adult company every now and again and definitely see some friends in the evenings/for coffee without kids, it doesn't have to be either/or, but a mixture of both.

this thread has reminded me why all the people I mix with are from the sn world.
my dd mixes mainly with young people with the same kind of sn as her, then in the holidays with young people with other sn's, she has never had any problems.

compare that to the bullying shit my nt son had to put up with in the nt world....

also when dd was younger, there used to be a group of girls who loved coming to play with her.
no "pity dates" (fucking sick expresion) they chose to do it and had fun.

as for the PC comment, vile

zzz you have obviously gone to a lot of trouble to reply, and I can see I have annoyed you to say the least, but I shall not be drawn into this further, sorry.

I do agree that you cannot force two children to play with each other f one does not want to, it will not work and might create resentment and drive the other child further away. I do go with dd to my friends house on occasion tat her not so nice nt ds s there, It will not affect our frienship, tough tits if he does not like it, he has to get used to dd as my friend is a close friend of mine. I don't force tem to play, nor would I want to, I just want him to be polite to her, hopefully when he matures he will (he's 5). However I do not like that such negative language and connotations are used for children with ASD, bullying, aggressive, violent. Whist naturally ALL children ave teir moments and can behave badly

pigletimania 'Socharlotte hate your attitude, why bother they don't want your pity. I personally would rather go without'

exactly. and that is the point i was making in my first post .The OP shouldn't feel obliged to make her DS play with this kid!
I do wish people would read posts!!

pchip - where exactly did I call you a name? Please don't invent nonsense to try to obscure the point I was making.

And my post was not addressed only to you - sadly there are some very unpleasant attitudes on this thread all through.

And actually, I think it misses the point to say that this issue is primarily about the OP and the other mum, as the OP has written a post where she appears to harbour a prejudice about children with SN generally - that is how it comes across and people have responded accordingly.

The OP, and how it is written is what we have to go on here and necessarily informs the replies.

Yes I agree with you op, just because op is friends with the boys mother does not mean tey ave to be friends, no different if we were alkung about 2 nt chi,dren that would not be an issue. They wield have to get on whilst I saw my friend. Same as my friends nt ds has to be polite to my dd and vice versa whist I see my friend. I will nt force them to have playdates as it just won't work

Meant ocharlotte no op

I would rather people invite us becase they like our company not because thy pity us, in that case i would rather not be invited

Perceptionreality- when you take a quote out of context from my post and ignore the rest of it, then declare that quote highlights the ignorance shown on the entire thread, lament you just don't have patience... Please don't be surprised if I assume you ARE addressing me. Nor be shocked when I extend you as much courtesy as you have to me and completely ignore the rest of your post.

Well, no I am not surprised you would ignore - that way you don't have to give a sensible response ;)

In any case I did not take anything out of context - you said that if the child didn't have SN then this thread would have turned out differently. And the whole point is that the fact he does have SN alters the situation considerably.

I am guessing the so called professional unthread is a TA working 1:1 with a child in mainstream.

This was one reason why we removed ds1 from ms school after 4 terms. The people working with him now have a lot more understanding, many more behavioural management skills and, that word again, value my son.

His TA in mainstream used to mouth off about him (yes, it does get back to parents, I didn't take it further because I realised she was completely untrained, the job was way beyond her and the school didn't have a clue. They were escalating incidents on a daily basis and we were left to pick up the behavioural disaster. - rather than complain I insisted to the idiot Ed psych that we be allowed to look at special schools - she had previously refused our request.) anyway it's amazing what an understanding, skilled environment can do.

As to do I ever socialise without my child. Yes, with people who value him. They don't have to be experts in dealing with him, they just have to see him and treat him as a human being. That's all, I don't set the bar very high. Quite a few failed.

And I'm also slightly stunned at all these dangerous kids. Ds2 and ds3 have been around many very severely learning disabled and severely autistic children for a combined total of 17 years. A lot of that time in water. The disabled children have been way bigger than them. Still are. The closest either of them has come to getting hurt was when my friend's dd picked baby ds3 up. I asked her to pass him to me and she did. Ds2 did get splashed in the pool a few weeks ago. someone's not supervising properly if there are all these near death experiences. I've had some neardeath experiences with learning disabled kids (climbing out of windows, eating glass, running in front of a car, escaping/wandering, eating medicines, breaking windows) but they've never involved putting anyone else in danger.

tbh I don't think this thread is about sn.
it is really about 2 grown ups who won't be honest with each other and an op who won't set boundaries in her own house.
all the op has to do is keep the boys in sight.

as for the weird post about the drowning child....yeah ok
cos NT kids are so noce all the time

I do think, rather sadly, that this whole thread just evidences Saintlys point upthread that people see those with SN as less than people.

Someone upthread shied away from the comparison of this being about a different race or ethnicity.

Perhaps a better example would be if this child was challenging because of a different reason. Would people be saying 'why should my child have to endure this' if the child in question was difficult because their parent was dying? Or a friend who (like DDs friend) had their whole behaviour change because they developed a brain tumour.

I said upthread that I think the OP is just out of her depth and has run out of any desire to help anymore. I have some sympathy for that in view of how poorly her friend is dealing with hers sons behaviours.
I am slightly more disturbed by the tone of some of those justifying why it is completely unreasonable to expect an allowances, any kindness really.

I don't think any of them have once mentioned the feeling or needs of the child with SN. The child seems thoroughly objectified as the problem.

I think these unthinking attitudes are why society is so grim in its attitudes to SN/ mental health. It is as if those terms suddenly place you outside humanity and different rules apply.

It's the almost funny juxtaposition of the warm and fuzzy feeling that things like comic relief create, the desperate sympathy for a child in need - as long as you don't have to actually manage being in a room with one.

Critically ill children, victims of accidents and very premature births are rightly prayed for and wept for.
Fast forward a few years and I wonder how many get the mutterings and rejection if a head injury means that they can't play nicely and it's all a bit difficult to deal with. Our compassion seems to only manage when it is dramatic and preferably from a distance.
Our children don't even have the honeymoon period when people see them as just kids coping with a really bad deal.

I am not having a go at anyone on the thread. This odd reaction has just been obvious to me for a long time, especially in people who would quite seriously view themselves as compassionate. And I think they manage it by silently placing 'not the same as us. Not actually a child' on our kids.

It's quite an interesting dynamic.

Word perfect Pagwatch

As an aside this is one reason why I love the surfers who take ds1 out so much. They value ds1 and stand up for him, and protect him from pillars of society when necessary.