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Original poster

to not understand the words "I'm not a feminist"?

414 replies

bushymcbush · 14/10/2012 22:51

I've seen this countless times on MN and I really don't get it.

Actually I've heard it quite a few times in RL too.

So, to those of you who are so keen to communicate your non-feminist standing, could you please explain to me which part of 'total equality between the sexes' you disagree with?

Alternatively, you could (gently) explain to me which part of that generic description of feminism I seem to have misunderstood?

OP posts:
NellyJob · 15/10/2012 19:15

oh hell yeh I remember my moroccan mate (female) getting quite irate with me when she saw my hairy armpits in the swimming pool!!

EmBOOsa · 15/10/2012 19:16

I get the impression I am expected to identify as a feminist. There are definitely posts which suggest that agreeing with some feminist ideals isn't enough. Like I said earlier, if that isn't the case then I'm happy to be corrected, but that is how some posts have come across.

HappyHalloween :) Thank you

LynetteScavo · 15/10/2012 19:43

I don't believe men and women are equal when it comes to having babies. I'm not talking "not the same". Women are superior, yet more vulnerable.

I also think it's easier just to say you are not a feminist than to have feminist challenge you. If you say you aren't a feminist they are more likely to give you up as a lost cause and leave you alone.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 19:49

I am a feminist.

But I do not like to primarily identify myself as such as a) I don't like labels and b) as labels go it is far too narrow

A bit like labeling an animal rights campaigner who didn't eat meat due to thier beliefs as vegetarian. Sure, they are vegetarian, but that's only a part of their values, not a full description

SmashingTurnips · 15/10/2012 19:49

I think you might be referring to my posts EmBOOsa (no doubt amongst others) - happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I'm not telling anyone what to do and I don't believe I have posted as such. I'm just bewildered by the notion that a woman who identifies with feminism generally would compare feminism to extremist movements or distance herself from the feminist movement on the basis of a few fringe views.

It feels like buying into and complying with a manufactured stereotype.

gordyslovesheep · 15/10/2012 19:52

I don't believe men and women are equal when it comes to having babies Grin sorry that made me smile ...it's like saying I don;t think tables are equal to manatees when it comes to being good at swimming under water Grin

SmashingTurnips · 15/10/2012 19:54

And I don't primarily identify myself as a feminist either - being a feminist is one part of who I am, it isn't the be all and end all of my identity.

I just think that it is a shame to splinter women's solidarity and power by focusing on the parts we don't agree on rather than the common ground that we as women have.

It feels like we are being divided and therefore potentially conquered. Which is a shame.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 19:56

But...........we are millions of individual people and feminism is heavily nuanced so we are not all going to agree on all things

The label is far less important than how people live and act surely?

SmashingTurnips · 15/10/2012 20:01

Well I guess I don't really see 'feminist' as a label - more of a protest.

If women don't think that feminism is necessary or relevant that is something altogether different. But to agree with the need for feminism whilst not supporting the movement by the simple action of identifying as one of its number strikes me as contradictory. And potentially divisive and ineffective.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 20:07

Night all, the nurse is here with my meds. I have a feeling this will still be going when I wake up. Thanks for an interesting day, I have learned a lot.

katecreate · 15/10/2012 20:26

I am a feminist. I also shave my legs etc. However, I do so in the knowledge that I'm not doing it solely for personal aesthetic preferences. Our choices are informed by the surrounding society- it's the norm for women to shave their legs so as not to appear "unfeminine". It takes a lot of courage to shirk this and I frustrate myself by not having the guts to forgo all the hassle!

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 20:29

I don't see it as a protest.

I see it as plain common sense.

And my actions make me an excellent feminist. It's just if someone asked me if I was one, I would say yes of course, although that is a by product of my belief that equality for all people is something to strive for. I also find feminism is a rather broad church, the extremes of which I do not always agree with. T I like the term equalist better, but in being an equalist one is automatically a feminist. At least the way I see it.

SmashingTurnips · 15/10/2012 20:51

Catgirl what would you say being an equalist means in concrete terms?

Is there an equalist movement with a concrete political analysis, literature and aims?

I ask because it seems so very broad a term that I'm not sure how it directly challenges the status of women and the discrimination we face. I'm never sure whether I think it is a worthy cause or a red herring (WRT feminism). Are there equalist forums and conferences that people contribute to? What has equalism achieved and what does it hope to achieve in the future?

Don't most (humane) people take it as a given that they want justice and freedom from oppression for all, but then accept that movements which focus on specific groups are necessary to achieve specific aims for those specific groups? Women have historically been expected to be the 'carers of the world' - can't we be our own carers too?

LynetteScavo · 15/10/2012 21:12

8gordyslovesheep* Should tables and manatees be treated equally at all times? Should they have the same rights and protection?

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 21:12

It means I do not place the need to improve the rights and lives of women over and above the needs to improve the rights and lives of anyone else who requires such improvement.

I doubt there is a "movement" with specific literature and aims

Does that make it any less valid?

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 21:18

I suppose you could call it Egalitarianism if you wanted to but again........labels are just not my bag

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 21:19

But there is a fair amount of literature etc on that if matters to you..........

seeker · 15/10/2012 21:26

"It means I do not place the need to improve the rights and lives of women over and above the needs to improve the rights and lives of anyone else who requires such improvement. "

And this "anyone else who requires such improvement" would be.....????

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 21:30

Can you really not think of any other disadvantaged groups of people seeker?

I'll start.............

The poor.

SmashingTurnips · 15/10/2012 21:35

But Egalitarianism is a vast vast subject. And it isn't an actual political movement - it is political philosophy.

I don't see how it translates into concrete action and improvement without addressing specifics.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 21:38

I've lost the will to live now so I'm leaving the thread

seeker · 15/10/2012 21:40

A good plan when you're made vague and unsupportable statements. So much than actually thinking about what you mean!

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 15/10/2012 21:44

Catgirl, let me ask you a question

When being "poor" is the over riding issue, who suffers the most, in your opinion ?

In my opinion? Women and children do. So, your example doesn't quite do the biz, IMO. Because being poor is also a feminist issue. The two cannot be separated.

Treats · 15/10/2012 22:02

To pick up an example that someone (EmBOOsa?) was using earlier:

I'm a Catholic. I continue to believe in and practice Catholicism, for my own reasons - which (if I'm in the mood) I'm happy to explain to anyone. That doesn't stop me being horrified by the covering up of paedophilia and alienated by the Church's views on homosexuality.

But, if you asked me, I'd tell you I was a Catholic. I wouldn't try and deny or downplay it because I disliked these things that are done in the name of Catholicism. I want to stand up for the elements of the church that are loving and thoughtful and have compassion for humanity (which I strive to represent).

Likewise, I'm a feminist. Maybe there are 'extreme' views of feminism that I don't agree with or some people who claim to be feminists that don't really know what they're talking about. Or - more commonly, ime, - representations of feminism in the media that distort what it really is.

But, if you asked me, I'd tell you I was a feminist. Because that's what you are if you believe that women should have the same freedoms as men. You just are - however much you might dislike some of the other things that are said and done in the name of feminism.

So, to go back to the OP's question - why would you not call yourself a feminist if that's what you are?

MarianneM · 15/10/2012 22:10

SmashingTurnips - I appreciate your efforts, especially in the face of such idiocy as has been seen on this thread.

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