to be angry at my friend who continues to smoke despite being pregnant?

[amandine07]

This could be (very) controversial...

A good friend of mine recently announced she is PG- I was delighted for her, they have been trying for over a year, I had been a shoulder to cry on for most of the last year as she feared it wouldn't happen as she is 37.

She is about 8 weeks along and continues to smoke about 15 cigarettes a day, she has cut down from 20 so this is progress. She insists it would be more harmful for the baby if she continued to drink alcohol and smoking is "the lesser of 2 evils" and has no plans to give up completely.

I'm sure many of you will say this is none of my business- I'm sure it isn't. I just can't believe her attitude after spending most of the last 12 months going on about being barren, infertile etc.

Also, another close friend has been trying for 3.5 years to become PG and has just failed a 2nd round of IVF- she is utterly devasted & I have witnessed how hellish infertility can be.

This puts things in perspective for me...AIBU to be angry with my friends seeming nonchalance with the whole smoking thing?

YANBU. As someone who gave up when I found out I was pregnant, I have absolutely no time or sympathy for those who continue to smoke. It is a clear, and definite, decision - putting a habit before the wellbeing of a child.

This same situation caused a massive falling out between two of my friends - one of them has a disability caused by the fact that her mum smoked whilst pregnant, and she was LIVID when our other friend smoked all the way through her first pregnancy.

The smoking friend is now pregnant again and still smoking... She also has a career which involves being around women who are struggling to conceive, and I can't help wondering what they must think - there they are, desperate for a child, and they're being assisted by a pregnant woman stinking of fags.

Makes me really actually very cross.

In terms of your "WWYD" situation, though, I would speak to her again, reiterate the risks and ask her if there's anything you can do to support her to quit so that she gives her baby the best chance.

I also agree with others who say that the whole "doctor says it's better for the baby than the stress of quitting" have just found a convenient excuse to carry on with their UNBELIEVABLY selfish habit.

yanbu there are a few things that I openly judge more harshly than seeing a pregnant woman smoking

Put your baby first ffs.

Ruby - "why on earth should she care that someone else has a fertility issue."

Pretty glad I don't count you amongst my friends if that's your take on how much empathy you should have with people close to you going through something to emotionally destroying!

Ready to be flamed...I smoked throughout my pregnancy. I can already feel the excuses making me gag trying to escape. But ultimately there are none. It is selfish and horrendous.I believe everyone (smoker or not) is aware of the risks of smoking in pregnancy (and not in pregnancy actually) and are making an informed decision. Or are choosing to be ignorant to the facts. I would never knowingly hurt my child, therefore cannt comprehend or excuse why I smoked when pregnant. Me and my DS are very lucky that so far there haven't been any complications (he's almost 5) but who's to say there won't be in the future? The worst thing for me was listening to him cry in the early days wondering how addictive nicotine was on an unborn baby and sobbing with guilt. I would NEVER smoke again whilst pregnant and hope any woman who does can carry the guilt and pain that comes with it. I refuse to judge due to my own actions, but would gladly talk to any smoking expectant mother about how it has affected me and my DS

Ruby
I'm certainly not suggesting that she should care about another woman's infertility- that's not the issue. In any case, they do not know each other so are not friends.

My point is that I am angry that she doesn't seem to realise how lucky she is to be pregnant and really should pull out all the stops to give her baby the best chance of being born healthy.

I'm angry on behalf on behalf of her unborn baby who is barely the size of a bean and getting daily hits of nicotine, not to mention reduced blood supply via the placenta....

Yes well that was the impression I got that they were not friends, that they were both friends of you, unlike some other posters . I'm aware its not the issue, I'm saying its irrelevant because it highlighted to me that this is more an issue to you than your pregnant friend.

I think you can judge, there was a whole other thread about this the other day, and every other day and yes most people feel smoking in pregnancy is wrong, I think generally thats a given, that the majority consensus is against smoking during pregnancy. Also I think its a given that women are aware of the dangers, to what extent varies, but most are familiar with the concept that it inflicts some harm. However my main point is that all you can do is judge. Its her body, her baby and her choice.

Getting angry achieves nothing. It solely disrupts your mood without influencing any change in the situation. I can see how it might be frustrating if you've had to listen to all this barren bollocks, (I would point that out to her), but you either have to agree to disagree or not be friends. Getting annoyed when she is intelligent and informed is pointless.

I'm not arguing the negatives or positives of smoking in pregnancy, I gave up smoking, alcohol and drugs during each of my pregnancies and I completely agree with the stance that it is wrong. But you asked if yabu to be angry and I think you are, I also think yabu to believe your friend should feel 'lucky' to be pregnant.

If you want a change, why don't you provide her with some of the scientific evidence, under the comment that you know how important it is to her, what with her banging on about being barren for a year and you're worried the doctor or whoever has given her incorrect information.

Where I work 25% of mothers smoke in pregnancy. Compared with about (I think) 19% nationally.

It is hard not to judge, however ultimately it is her choice. If she chooses to make an informed choice or not, it is still her choice.

It's a depressing reality, along with many others our society faces. In one country a mother hasn't enough to feed her pregnancy with the food she needs and in another we can spend good money on a lifestyle that may make us ill. Bonkers world.

Nicotine is an addictive drug. You can sit in your ivory tower and pontificate how evil someone is if you like. Ask your smoking Dh to go cold turkey and the response will not be pleasent.

The fact you have a friend undergoing IVF is of no relevence to your friend smoking whatsoever. Don't try and allign the two. They are incomparable.

I've posted before about my cousin and his wife; both smokers, they lost their first baby to cot death at 18 days.

They have since very recently, had another.

They both smoked all the way through this pregnancy (as they had with the first) which was beset with scares, problems and hospital stays because of early labour which all 3 times was stopped.

Thank God, the baby made it almost to term and is thriving.

I have found it very difficult not to say anything to them. But it's their choice, ignorant and selfish though it is.

BattlingFanjos well said. I hope you don't get a hard time on here - sounds as though you've more than paid your dues. That must have been very hard for you in the early days - if it helps at all, my DS cried for hours daily until around the 3 month mark, and I never smoked!

I'm surprised at some ppl saying say nothing its their choice. I'm well aware that legally ppl can smoke during pregnancy and in a house where a child lives but in my opinion it has been proven to damage children so it should be classed as child abuse and be banned, but no doubt the human rights brigade would have something to say on that, but what about the rights of the baby?
I would not be friends with someone who is so selfish they would hurt an innocent baby and I would actually tell her if she valued our friendship then she should quit, end of.

Might seem unlikely that she'd stop for u, since she hasn't stopped for her babies sake but sometimes, especially at 8 wks, some mothers don't connect pregnancy with that tiny beautiful baby.

I would actually tell her if she valued our friendship then she should quit, end of

I can see that this would satisfy your anger but it would do little to persuade someone to stop smoking.

JesusInTheCamperVan Thank you. Yup...and still will pay everytime he as much as sneezes or coughs.

Flojo1979 was going to say it'd be doubtful she'd stop for a friendship if she hasn't stopped for her child but you beat me to it lol. I doubt it would have stopped just made me more isolated and bitter about what I had done. Whether she admits it freely or not, chances are she will regret what she is doing and ultimately there is only her that has to live with the guilt/regret

Yanbu. The SIDS risk from smoking scares me to bits.

Also I'll add, I never connected with my pregnancy, I was very cut off throughout. I was 19 and all my friends were out having "the time of their lives" (highly doubtful lol). It literally hit me the day he was born, bizarre! Especially watching other people having the natural, maternal instincts kicking in very early on! Some women just don't get it I guess, I was lucky it did come once he was born and I wouldn't change a thing about him.

I smoked whilst pregnant with my first DS, he was born very poorly and spent the first 9 weeks of his life in ICU, although his illness was unconnected to my smoking I still blamed myself for it, he was 7lb 10oz but i still thought if i hadn't smoked he might have been bigger and stronger etc. I am now 8 weeks pregnant and haven't touched a cig since the day I found out. I have stuck pictures of my son with wires and needles sticking out of him around my house to remind me just how important quitting is. It is hard, but it is harder to live with what my actions might have contributed to my sons illness.

Has she trawled out the old chestnut about the doctor telling her that its better for the baby to keep smoking, than to give up totally?

Yanbu

I work with a man whose partner recently had an ectopic pregnancy after trying 'desperately' to conceive for a year at 40 the way I see it is you can't be that desperate if you still smoke.

It's pretty awful to put your pregnancy and unborn child at risk knowingly. Smoking is a very obvious way of endangering your child and personally I find it really upsetting to see a pregnant woman smoking.

But I think everybody takes some level of risk during their pregnancy - e.g. what they eat, how they exercise (or don't exercise), the odd glass of wine, sunbathing, having a warm bath. My personal choice was not to smoke in pregnancy and I was extremely cautious about anything else that might affect my unborn child. But I did have the occasional glass of wine and I continued to live in a city full of pollutants. Everyone makes choices based on their attitude towards risk, and some people would say that the vitriol directed at smokers is disproportionate to the risk to the unborn child.

I think more effort should be put into supporting pregnant women that smoke. I think more pregnant women who smoke and then miraculously give up as soon as they POAS and get a BFP should be writing/talking about just how they did that - did the cravings mysteriously just vanish, swept up in a cloud of maternal love? Oh, happy days. What about the sudden, immense pressure that appears as soon as you pee on a stick to give up entirely, when, what, 3 minutes before, you could smoke when you wanted to? Even worse, most people who are very against smoking (As in, think you are evil if you smoke, when not pregnant) are also very against nicotine replacement therapies - especially in pregnancy.

Here, go on, have a whopping great bit of life changing news. Let me just take away your only comfort in the world - that's how life will feel. Comfortless. Cold. Empty. By day 20 without nicotine, you'll hardly be able to function. You'll stare at your PC screen at work not seeing text or images but just a white haze. You won't be able to sleep. Where the sadness stops, the anxiety starts. Your heart seems to be going a hundred miles a minute. Every minute lasts an hour. You cry all the time. By day 30, you're barely even existing. For some, quitting smoking induces severe depression and a feeling of bereavement - a huge sense of loss. This can last for 3 months for many.

A study on successful smoking cessation carried out prior to the availability of nicotine replacement therapies showed that one third of smokers found it incredibly easy to quit, one third found it a bit difficult from time to time, and one third found it impossible.

Be angry at your friend all you want, I'm sure that'll help her. It's not like it'll be drowned out by the absolute self-loathing she's suffering already. It's a terrifying time, and you can't talk to anyone. Nicotine addiction is a serious thing. So many of us ignore smoking in males or non-pregnant females for so much of our lives. It's seen as a casual habit, a hobby, almost. It's only when it's absolutely crucial to quit now, yesterday, two weeks ago when you conceived that we all suddenly admit that it's seriously dangerous. But we still won't talk about how it's seriously difficult to quit in a way that's meaningful and supportive for pregnant women.

Getting angry instead - oh yeah, that'll help your friend.

Possibly not a popular view but I judge anyone who can't stop drinking and/or smoking whilst pregnant, its 9mnths of your life, if you need a glass of wine or fag that badly you'll risk your babys health then you shouldn't be a parent. Its NINE months, that's all.

So you've done the anger thing OP

Are you going to offer some support?

I agree with whoever said buying her the Alan Carr book might help.

Ultimately though she may tell you to wind your neck in, but you can only try.

Obviously this topic causes much debate.
Like some say, each to their own, ultimately a smoker has to want to stop smoking.

To me, the comparison with my other friend who is struggling to conceive is of relevance- in the sense that my PG friend does not seem to appreciate what she has. She has been stamping her feet about not being PG for the last several months, I thought she'd do everything to ensure it is successful.

I'm not currently TTC or have plans for a baby soon, but I do know that if I am lucky enough to be PG one day, I will indeed feel lucky and do everything I can to ensure that the baby is born healthy.

To me, the comparison with my other friend who is struggling to conceive is of relevance

Not to you friend it isn't.

It's on a par with telling someone there are people starving in Africa when they can't eat their dinner.