To dread becoming a M-I-L

[Partridge]

I'm sure this has been done to death, but as the mother of 3 ds I feel incredibly disheartened (and sad) about the utter intolerance shown towards MIL on mn.

I adore my boys (hopefully not smotheringly) and try to teach them to be compassionate, gentle and to look after themselves. I aim not to spoil them and to teach them how to be wonderful husbands and fathers. The majority of mil threads on mn are very negative and many are spiteful and generic about evil mil.

The only time I have felt sad about not having a daughter is when I read how little mil seem able to be involved in the lives of their ds and gc - do these posts come from mums of girls? Do these (often harsh) rules extend to their own mothers?

In this time of equality it seems wrong that the mil seems often to be required to be a doormat to be allowed access to her family. (By that I mean accept being merely "tolerated" by her DIL).

Obviously there are exceptions to this - and clearly there are some monstrous mil out there - but the prevailing theme is of total disdain and inequality towards mil. Please tell me I am being totally over sensitive and ridiculous. I really feel very sad at the thought of being "the enemy" by virtue of having 3ds.

The iPhone 5 is fucking useless for typing. Sorry.

My MIL is a bitch. She is not allowed, along with her misogynist husband, in my home.

"also, nobody will ever love your sons as much as you do, it's not possible."

It's also worth remembering that once they grow up they will not love you as much though. That kind of love will be for their children and spouse and I fully expect that with my children.

"Fwiw very few posts are proving that iabu to dread mil-dom" Partridge

I think I'm reading a different thread.
I've seen a lot of posts saying how much people like their MILs, sometimes more than their own mothers.
I've read posts by people explaining clearly why they are unhappy with their MIL, where there are clearly issues.
Not one person has said "These are my babies and this woman has no right to get to know them". Most people have acknowledged the right of their MIL to have a relationship with her grandchildren. People who don't want their MIL in their life seem to have ample reason for it. Many people seem to make lots of effort even when their MIL is being a nightmare, precisely because they want their children to have a relationship with their grandma.

You say that someone like probably comes across as combative - but in some respects so do you a bit - determined to see a problem with a DIL who isn't even in your life yet. I think if you chill out a bit and are a nice person to be around it'll be fine.
Maybe accept that there might be a moment when your DIL wants her own mum more than you (eg immediately post-birth when she's leaking blood and milk and in pain for a week or so). Doesn't mean you are being excluded from your grandchild's life, just that she's trying to recover without it being a spectator sport! Other than that, unless you turn out to be difficult and beligerant, I really don't see why you are anticipating issues.

Partridge, I know exactly what it's like to be incredibly lonely, to the point of feeling suicidal. But I also know what it takes to get out of that place - more than a supportive family, it takes your own individual effort. Right now, despite every family member's best efforts to help her, my MIL is comfortable with her unhappiness and comfortable flinging that unhappiness at everyone else she loves. She would rather remain unhappy than do something about it.

Kindness, in the meantime, does not equate to letting my MIL have her way all the time, especially when her way involves taking over my household and not letting DH or me have a shot at the fun part of being the parents. I think you'll find several MIL-hating threads on MN are concerned with exactly that: Grandma is happy to leave the shitty part of parenting - (the discipline, the rules, the boundary enforcement, etc) to you, but she wants to take over or get first shot at the fun parts (buying the presents we said we would get, showing up with the birthday cake we wanted to bake, etc). Most of us here actually look forward to being mothers and no, MIL (or my own DM for that matter) is not welcome to step in and do the fun part for us. It's not okay.

Kindness does not equate to letting MIL smother us, letting her ignore our requests for some privacy or boundaries, or tolerating emotional blackmail/abuse.

Other people's mothers don't act like this. I have a brother. My own mother is a very reasonable, together woman with her own life and her own hobbies. She calls him occasionally, but she does not act the way I've described so far with him. She does not mourn that he is a grown man who has flown her nest; she takes joy in the fact that despite her mistakes, she still managed to raise an intelligent, confident and independent man. I wish my own MIL would see things a bit more like that.

And I don't mean just some of the fun parts. I mean nearly all of the fun parts. And I mean getting upset when you try to carve out some of your own fun parts with the kids.

I am not loosing sleep over this at the moment - but it does bother me for the future. Seriously I have a very full life with lots of friends and hobbies. I just love my kids and hope I get lucky with DIL. I don't think that is too weird.

probably your post smacks uncomfortably of the "pull yourself together" approach to depression. Of course you have to want to help yourself, but presumably you can remember what it is like not to be able to see the wood for the trees? I hope my DIL would be more compassionate.

Eventually, you have to do that, though. Whether it's visiting your GP, or calling a helpline, or taking the advice of the son who actually does want you to be happy. You do have to pull yourself together at some point and start doing something about it. Spending years of your life refusing to do anything about your depression and low mood will emotionally exhaust even your most affectionate family and friends.

Yes, I remember not seeing the forest for the trees when I was depressed, but I also knew it wasn't my family's job to make things better for me. My DH and my DSD cannot be at his mother's side every day. That is what my MIL thinks will make her happy, and when she doesn't get exactly what she wants, she acts like a bitch. When that starts to become a pattern, well ... what does she, or anyone else, expect? Sorry if that's harsh, but wallowing in your living room going "Ah, me" for several years isn't going to win anybody sympathy points. Lashing out at the rest of the family because you feel depressed about your own circumstances won't do it either. I feel sorry for my MIL, but not in the way she wants me to. I hope she gets the help she needs. But I cannot do it for her, and neither can DH.

I'm sure you will get along fine with any future DILs. My MIL is hard work - something her own son and daughter both told me before DH and I got married. I think a lot of other women here have hard work MILs too, and that's what they write about. Sometimes, we would also like a shot at doing some of the fun Mommy stuff, or at least have a dialog with MIL before she just up and does it or up and buys it.

What I suggest is Patridge converts to Sikhism. It is customary for the dils to come to live in the husband's parents' home.

Otoh, perhaps you may end up like my sister. Her gd lives with her during the week (she is 3) and goes home to her parents at the weekend so they can pursue their careers without any childcare issues. But then they visit for lunch every Sunday too. And my nephew calls my sister at the very least five times a day every day. Unbelievable!

Athinginyourlife i know! maybe i won't remind my kids of that when they are teens!

BigWitchLegsInWaileyTights maybe i worded it wrong, i don't mean it in a point scoring way, but IMO nobody can love your kids in the same way as you, the one who created them or gave birth to them does. of course any future DIL would love my son fiercely (if i had one, i don't! i have a DD) but it would be conditional i think, whereas a mother's love, in most cases, is unconditional.

Blisterpack oh i understand that. that's how it should be. the woman's husband and kids or the man's wife and kids come first. i don't think when you're a grown up your love for your parent's lessens, it's just that your love for your partner/husband/wife and kids is stronger.

Partridge - I haven't read the whole thread - but I was a mum of 3 DSs - now have a DD too - and I have always been aware of this dynamic. I get on ok with my MIL, though we have had many wobbly times before my eldest son was diagnosed autistic when I said 'I think he's autistic' and she replied 'nonsense, he's just rude because you mollycoddle him' in various ways over a period of about 5 years.

Anyway, this is my plan with my DILs. When they are pregnant I will warn them that I will undoubtedly give them a load of well meaning but outdated advice, and may well try to be bossy without meaning to, and may well be excessively irritating by doing stuff 'wrong' with the baby. And that what they must do is nod and smile, tell me, and decide whether the degree of 'wrong' is harmful to the baby respectively! Or just tell me to butt out grandma as if I am their own mother. I will warn them that I am a big know all about raising babies 2001-2010 vintage and will not be able to resist passing on this sage advice, though I will try very hard.

I am hoping that this will set the stage for me to be as interfering a granny as I wish a granny who shows respect for her DIL as a parent and with all cards out on the table. I will also try to say 'do you mind if I..' or 'Would it help if I..' when I can.

Partridge, we can do this!

Haha thanks ilikemysleep. It's refreshing to hear how much you care about your boys and haven't stopped thinking about investing in the mil relationship and the potential pitfalls just because you have a dd.

Honestly I literally had a friend who had recently had a dd after 2 ds tell me how great and what a relief it is now she doesn't have to worry about shared interests/ old age any more. Very tactless and putting a large burden on a 4 month old baby! I can't imagine not caring about my future with my ds just because I had a dd. I probably need to toughen up a bit, but it's been a bad week of listening to people saying how nice it is for a friend to get a daughter after a ds etc. I get this all the time. Some people ask me if I am disappointed ds3 was a boy - this when I nearly lost him when he was born. Unbelievable.

Partridge I think your friend (who has just had the dd) is the one with problems - and oh my goodness her poor baby dd (not poor now as a baby but in later years) - what if they just have nothing in common/ conflicting personalities. What on earth makes her assume she will have shared interests with her DD? The only thing my mother and I have in common is shared interest in family members, and even then its not the same kind of interest, absolutely nothing else in common at all, and she is the human being on this planet with the greatest talent for winding me up in the space of a 5 minute phone call, let alone face to face!

Will your friend's world fall apart if her daughter chooses to live her own life, pursue a time intensive career and have children at the other end of the country and not have much time to spare for her mum, if she only phones once a week, or what if dd decides to emigrate to Australia when she is 23 - will your friend's world fall apart even if both dss live round the corner? Setting herself up for disappointment as surely as you are worrying over a theoretical situation 20 or 30 years in a possible version of the future...

Shang , of course...like most Mothers of DDs I have thought that this is a possibility. But marriage doesn't magically bring children you know...even UN married women can have children you know...

And equally....a DIL may not have children...so my advice is to be nicce to everyone...and not just for potential grandchildren.

I agree. It has been slightly hijacked about gc. I'm more worried at the moment about staying close to my 3ds.

you do mention grandchildren specifically in your posts though. Maybe that's why people have focused on it?

Shanghai, reading your post I am remembering the holiday when I met PIL.

MIL and I were sitting chatting and she looked at me and said 'I don't think our [SIL] will ever have kids' and looked at me significantly (I was to all appearances very much the career woman unlikely to want kids at the time) as if to say 'Please give me some'.

She strongly favoured SIL over my DH, to the point of heartbreak for him, but as soon as I came on the scene she realised if she wanted to enjoy GC she should start backing a different horse. Cue MIL's better relationship with DH and, thankfully, a deeper rapprochement with him just before she died.

YABU

I think some mothers have problems with the significant other women in their sons lives which becomes worse when gc arrive.I think mothers then vent on MN as this is where mums hang out soooo you see a lot of neg mil posts.

Some mils I'm sure are lovely,many sadly are not and I don't think it's fair to make mums feel crap when they vent.I haven't vented but I've read many a post with I identify with.I'm unfortunately afflicted with a problem mil and it continuously makes me sad.It's not something I wished for.

I have a very difficult relationship with my mil.She's bossy,tactless,selfish,lax re looking after children,impulsive and at times extremely controlling.To be frank at times she's more difficult to handle than my dc.She has good points but these can often pale into insignificance.Like dp I used to let mil behave how she wanted before the dc but after the dc sorry my children come first.

My mother is a huge part of my dc's lives and the only person I trust to leave them with.She follows my rules re safety to the letter(she's actually more safety conscious than me).I wouldn't trust my mil for half an hour and I've never left them in her care.She continually over rides my parenting eg her garden in which she has 2 ponds and it is very near woods and a death trap of a dual carriage way.I told her countless times to keep the back door locked and not to let them out unattended.When dd was 3 and we were going to a distressing funeral I had to get ready after a 2 day drive through France.I turned my back for half an hour and she'd let dd out(into the garden with the gate wide open) who ended up in one of the ponds(thankfully the shallower one of the 2 because "grandma said she could"(I'd said she couldn't).

Or there was the time she thought it would be ok to drag my 3 4 and 5 year olds over 4 lanes of speeding dual carriage way traffic to get to the woods the other side because she wanted to.I said absolutely not and she argued and said I was being too fussy(in front of my dc).She's dumped my dc on London underground trains to get a seat after being told to hold their hands at all time.....I could list hoards of other examples.

My mother holds down a full time job but always puts all her grandchildren first and spends a lot of time with all of them(even those far away).Mil never visits,only once a year not in winter(because of poss ice)or summer(because of her garden).My parents give up hours of their free time even though they work(mil doesn't).Mil moans she never sees the gc but when we visit she makes it clear that it's an effort having us to stay.We can't afford the petrol to visit a lot yet mil is loaded and manages expensive holidays at all time of the year.We're expected to do the 4 hour journey with 3 kids in bad weather if we want the gc to see her which we do.

I'm happy to list all the reasons why I have such a fraught relationship with mil but I don't feel I should have to justify it.It's horrible having stressful relationships with inlaws. Mothers generally parent the way their mothers did and probably have more in common.I think often mils have a chip re the maternal grandmother and to be perfectly frank think dil aren't good enough for their ds.

One good thing re my tale of woe is I'm learning exactly what not to do when I become a gm to my dil's children.

So said by a mother of a dd (I know you have ds too - but it's not the same).

Of course people can vent about mil. I am venting too about the fact that I think a lot of mil get a hard time. Am I not allowed to?

I repeat that I do not believe people with a dd can possibly understand how hurtful it is for other people to constantly make assumptions about the biological imperative to be closer to dds like you just have. You just can't. Sorry. I adore my sons and I would like to actively participate in their future (and yes gc will hopefully be part of that). So shoot me.

And btw I am under no illusions that my sons are fallible and that plenty of women will probably be good enough for them.

I have to say I don't get it. I certainly don't plan on putting DS gently aside to concentrate on DD once they are adults. The idea is alien, and repellent. Some people do talk a lot of shite about children and gender, it depresses me.

Well let's hope you get on well with your dil and gparent her children in a way she's happy with.

My mother plays a huge part in my dc's lives because she's deserves to be.My mil gets what she puts in.

I have sons and a dd.I'm fully aware my son's wives(or girl friends or boy friends) will have their own mother from which they'll take a lot of their mothering experience from.My way of doing things will have to take a back seat and I will no longer be the uber female in my son's lives.

Dd and I clash.My mother and I clashed.I find boys far easier but re parenting I parent how my mother did,I can't help it.My mother and I are a lot closer now but will never be in that joined at the hip way neither will dd and I.Dd and I are close in a mother/daughter way not in a best friend way, far too alike and I'm dreading the teenage years.I'm very close to my boys too,in some ways closer as we understand each other better.I find girls scary.

Ugh. My mother is not the uber female in my life. I am thanks. My husband would feel very disaffected and pissed off if my mother tried to play some Victorian matriarch. I agree, there is a lot of depressing rubbish spouted about gender. Unfortunately it is spouted and endorsed by far too many people. Even on this thread (and not all by me)