if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Ah but hamster don't forget that the Conservatives were also saying they would match the spending pound for pound too...

Anyway...enough, this thread is too long

"Yep, that's what you need, Marxist economics. "Spend more, and when you run out of money, keep spending."

Marxist economics is nothing to do with spending! are you confused with Keynes?

Rather than looking at it from a "making lots of children homeless" why not look at it from a more positive perspective? How about, "the policy will encourage youngsters to work hard to ensure that they are able to provide for themselves and not rely on tax-payer handouts."

It's called "spin".

a government which plans to make thousands of children homeless

You're at it again.

Do you really think the government is 'planning to make thousands of children homeless'?

Whether or not their ideas are good/bad/insane/genius they categorically are not planning to make anyone homeless.

If homelessness is the result it will be because things didn't work as they wanted, it's not because that was the aim of their policy.

And you seriously wonder why people don't care for your left-wing diatribe...

If you're going to summarise a thread, at least do it in an unbiased and fair manner.

ShellyBoobs, I thought her summary was a spoof.

Crikey!

grovel - having read, watched and posted on this thread, I think not.

Crikey indeed...

There you go with the denial again.

I really think that the result of their policy will be children being made homeless, yes. In fact it is already happening.

Whether the policy makers intend it or are so out of touch they can't see the obvious I can't say. But if you take away housing benefit from hundreds of thousands of families, then many children will end up homeless, I would say that much is obvious, wouldn't you?

Please don't forget that poverty and homelessness rose dramatically under Thatcher - you do accept that, don't you?

It is already happening:

"Today, the number of people sleeping rough is accelerating. In London last year, rough sleeping increased by 43%.

This has been driven to some extent by the government cutting the Supporting People budget by an estimated 11%. This, combined with the removal of the ring-fence that guaranteed this money was spent on helping vulnerable groups like rough sleepers, has led many local authorities to use that money to plug the gaps in other budgets and cut hostel provision.

At the same time, David Cameron's government is actively preventing young adults from returning to the family home.

In social housing, the bedroom tax on tenants with spare rooms seeks to force families into downsizing once their children move away to university or to find work.

In the private rented sector, we now know that many London families are moving to smaller flats in order to fit within Iain Duncan Smith's new caps on Local Housing Allowance.

Completely at odds with this latest welfare proposal, the government has created a policy framework that may force more young adults out of the family home and prevent many from returning.

In government, the prime minister and his cabinet are wedded to driving forward the same old failed Thatcherite agenda, wilfully ignoring the housing crisis at the root of so many social and economic problems.

Meanwhile, they divert attention by picking on those most affected by this crisis."

Huffington Post

ShellyBoobs

How do you think a policy of talking Housing Benefit away from under 25s could not lead to homelessness? (Please don't forget 53% of those households include children)

I'm curious - do you really think this policy could be enacted without making anyone homeless?

How about Thatcher? Do you think she was aware that her policies would make people homeless ahead of time or do you think it was a big surprise to her? (Plenty of commentators at the time mentioned it before it happened, it wasn't a surprise to them).

I can't be bothered to respond to your crap anymore.

So you have no explanation to offer then?

Does anyone else care to explain how a policy of making all under 25s homeless can be enacted without making anyone homeless?

I am genuinely curious!

I am also curious as to whether Thatcher was aware that her policies would lead to homelessness or if she was surprised at the rise in people sleeping rough and in insecure housing?

I'm curious OP, what are YOU PERSONALLY going to do about these proposals?

Have you started a petition on the #10 website, written to your MP, demanded meetings and debate with councillors and parliamentarians?

Or have you just waxed lyrical on the Internet?

Shelly, why not just be honest and admit you are not responding because you can not defend what this Tory Government is doing.

Good question EnjoyVampire. I'm not sure yet, but I have been thinking about it.

I'm going to start by going to the demonstation on the 20th and take it from there.

FWIW I think speaking about this kind of thing on the internet is more than just "waxing lyrical" as it reaches so many people. I've learnt a lot from mumsnet threads on politics. I would hope that a few more people are aware about what the government are up to than were before this thread started.

What are you doing about it?

Well I thought I'd first understand if a proposal has any chance of becoming a reality before I trotted out an offensively titled thread.

Then I'll decide what to do. Based on my previous objections to proposals by all parties that will involve ACTUAL objection vs a frothy thread.

But I'm betting good money you'll do the square root of f*ck all. I look forward to your future updates contradicting me though.

I don't think my thread title is anywhere near as offensive as actually making people homeless, which is already happening as a result of current Tory policies.

Would you agree?

Mini - why the hell would I want to defend the Tories?

I'm not one now. I've never been one. I've never voted for them.

The reason I'm sick of trying to have any sort of debate here is because of the diatribe, as I said earlier.

In particular, OPs use of wording such as '...planning to make thousands homeless', which implies there are people sat there in Whitehall having meetings about how they can make people homeless.

That's clearly utter nonsense.

I thought it was very obvious from my last few posts. Obviously not.

That's my last post on this thread.

Aufaniae, do you take personal responsibility for the erosion of civil liberties under the previous government?

I would be delighted to see you take action on this matter as it clearly affects you. In reality I expect you'll just click "like" on some anti-Tory fb page and talk about signing a petition.

Your link to the Huffington Post is more helpful than anything you have written OP.

Your angry student writing style and language is tedious and off putting and detracts from the valid issue you are raising.

Is it documented anywhere that the benefits will not be paid to under 25 year old parents ? People with children are usually exempt from those rules.

Mosman no, it has not been specifically documented that HB will be taken away from under-25s. Cameron has announced a proposal to take away HB from 25 year olds based on age, not need. They've been talking about this for a while.

The only exception he has mentioned publicly is possibly for care-leavers.

53% of households claiming HB include children. If he does not intend to include them, then I would suggest he is causing unnecessary distress and worry to people by not announcing an exemption for families.

The homeless charities certainly are taking the threat to families seriously, (see the open letter they wrote, upthread) and it has been widely reported that this will affect families in the press. If they no not intend it to, they really should say so.

I suspect perhaps they are waiting to see what the public attitude is before announcing the detail.

Even if the 25-year old HB rule does end up having an exemption for families (and I hope it does), families on low wages and benefits are at threat of homelessness because of changes in the rules for a number of other reasons - see the Huffington Post quote above.

So basically people are panick g when they don't actually have all the facts.
Families will not lose their homes, rents will decrease and that is good news for all those families who work and pay rent with their hard earnt wages, it's happening already.

gettingeasier if you think you can do better please go ahead ...

Shelley - They may not be specifically planning to make families homeless but they know full well that will happen so what's the difference really?

They were told that the HB cap would cause homelessness figures to rise. They ignored it and now families are being made homeless - mine included. And that's before the cap is officially in place in some areas. The knee jerk reaction of the private rented sector has been to deny HB people.

Time and time again they are warned but the people and charities on the front line that these policies will be devastating. Yet they constantly ignore that.

I don't think it's a particular Tory trait by the way. But they have shown spectacular arrogance recently so I understand why people feel this way about them.

Mosman, the level of homelessness is rising already.

We saw poverty and homelessness rise massively under Thatcher (do you remember?) and the same seems set to happen again, looking at the policies they are rolling out.

When the PM stands up and says he wants to take away HB for under 25s, and does not mention an exemption for families, I do think we need to take it seriously.

All their rhetoric about the "big society" and families looking after their own ties in with it.