if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

YANBU.

Homeless mummy - how would I police what? I haven't suggested anything except getting rid of child benefit, tax credits and maternity pay. All pretty easy to police. That would allow for more generous temporary benefits for the jobless and ongoing benefits for the disable and carers

Homeless mummy I know too many women that have not done a day's work in their lives, so don't give me that. We all do.

I should damn well hope the system is there for me and mine the amount I've paid in, it's a shame that not everyone can make that claim, if you'll pardon the pun.

I'm not jelous (sic,) vile, or anything else of the sort, but I am frustrated that a bunch of lazy tarts think it's perfectly Ok to scrounge. Of course I fund our lifestyle, that was the point of the four jobs and 4 ams, but I didn't do that to fund a bunch of brainless bimbos and their offspring to a similar standard.

Ooops! YABU.

That is one of the most impressively macho straw-men I have ever seen Toombs, I think I am in love

Lazy tarts and Brainless bimbos. Right.

So we take the benefits from them (the stupid lazy ones that is ). Then what? Suppose they all just got a letter tomorrow say 'no more money'?

Do they all suddenly go out and find well paying jobs to fund themselves?

Do you think that is likely? Or doable - considering they are all stupid so probably have no experience or qualifications? Do you think that the kind of jobs open to them would support them and the children they have?

So what happens? They live in poverty - they tighten their belt. But their children suffer. And they continue the cycle because they are under nourished, poorly housed, poorly educated and with no sense of worth in society.

It's time to solve the issues yes. But simply telling people to piss off and fend for themselves will make things worse. Start with making people think they are worth more and we ight just get soewhere.

Call them lazy tarts and brainless bimbos and that's exactly what they will expect of themselves. As will their children.

But as long as you're taxed a little less then I guess it doesn't matter.

No reason for them to be poorly educated we have free state education, poor nourishment would be down to the parents, so save your ire for them, money does not give you a sense of worth as the current state of society proves.

But the studies show that children living in poverty do not engage with education.

Poor nourishment is a problem for families on low incomes.

And It isn't the money I agree. But pushing them into even worse states of poverty will cause problems with self worth.

These thing really can't be denied or at the very least shouldn't be dismissed londonone.

Time and again people are crying 'cut the benefits' but no one ever really thinks it through. It's just blindly following the benefit bashing culture. Blaming those deemed below you for everyone's problem without a thought for real solutions.

And the current state of society says an awful lot about money and self worth from what I can see.

-So according to some pp, all women that recieve any benefits with more than one baby are brainless bimbo's, tart's and should keep their legs closed.

Well that is quite clearly a very sexist, prejudice thing to say.
Take your judgey pants off until you find yourself in the same situation, but of course you are more likely to hoik them up and carry on with the tirade of abuse on those less privilidged than you.
Well get this twisted sista's, some of us haven't had the same opportunities as you, some of us are not brainboxes like you, some of us live in the country or suburbs where there is education freely available, some of us wanted to have a family before our biological clocks stopped working, and some of us have went through circumstantial change.

One thing remains the same between us all though, we all want the best for our children and we bring them up to the best of our ability.

Being on benefits whether its the whole shabam or just partially isn't that fun, maybe you should try it. It's no where near the lifestyle you think it is and lets face it if you had to live my life, you probably wouldn't cope as your used to such luxuries.

Isn't education freely available

Oh my god. I can't believe that there are no schools or colleges available to people living in the country or the suburbs. That as you say pumpkin is appalling. But it isn't appalling because it isn't true. You wanted to beat your biological clock. You did that the first time, though let's be honest the odds were pretty good at 19. As for my pants, judgy or otherwise, I shall keep them on and I can only urge you to do the same . For all our sakes

Homeless mummy - we will have to agree to disagree, I see most of those issues as the responsibility of the parents and you see the solution as simply handing the parents cash. I dont. There are services that could be better funded that help children without giving cash to the parents.

londonone - I don't think you should hand out the cash to solve the problems. I have said that already.

I just don't think stopping the money is the answer either.

It has to be about educating people. Showing them what they are capable of. If you push them further into poverty without giving them the knowledge to support themselves how is it going to change?

Could you give us a quick run-down of these services?
You mean like breakfast clubs, food vouchers and so forth?

Yes those would be examples. I am aware that many of those things have lost funding and those are not cuts I would support. I personally don't think surestart was a very good use of resources like I said, I prefer the resources to be directed at the children not the adults

who me minouminou?

I think work should be done in schools to give children inspiration, aspiration, confidence that they can achieve things. That should be the starting point.

Yes breakfast clubs - and actively seeking to engage those that need them the most. After school clubs and activities that help the children learn they are worth something are also important.

And courses for the parents. I don't mean just parenting courses but actual vocational ones that are run in school hours so that the barrier of childcare isn't an issue - or provide crèches for younger children.

I don't like the idea of voucher schemes at all really. You only have to look at this thread to see the stigma already out there and this would make it worse. Can you imagine the threads?

I don't pretend to have all the answers. I have just paid it a little more thought then 'cut the scum off' which seems the stock answer these days.

It's odd - people want the benefit claimants to solve their own financial problems. Yet those very same people are the ones shouting the loudest but offering no real solutions - it's almost like the expect it to change...but they aren't willing to do the thinking themselves. Which is ironic really.

I think it needs to go to both londonone. It's true that working with the next generation would help but they learn so much of their behaviour from the home so we do need to invest in the parents too. They are raising the children after all.

Twisted Sista's, well said. The cuts are disproportionately effecting (working class) women.

The NHS funds IVF, something I oppose. I do not see why my taxes should be spent giving feckless middle class careerists the thing biology denies them because they were too selfish to step of the career ladder when they should have done.

Start with making people think they are worth more and we ight just get soewhere.
If people can't respect themselves, then no-one else will.

Call them lazy tarts and brainless bimbos and that's exactly what they will expect of themselves. As will their children.
You see, if anyone said that to me, I'd just work doubly hard to prove them wrong.

Well that is quite clearly a very sexist, prejudice thing to say.
Why?

Take your judgey pants off until you find yourself in the same situation, but of course you are more likely to hoik them up and carry on with the tirade of abuse on those less privilidged than you.
I would never let myself be in that position, THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

some of us haven't had the same opportunities as you,
If you were brought up in a developed country, of course you have.

some of us are not brainboxes like you
You don't need to be academic to be a brilliant fashion designer, hairdresser, interior designer, chef and so on.

some of us live in the country or suburbs where there is education freely available,
That's just ridiculous.

some of us wanted to have a family before our biological clocks stopped working,
Your choice then, I waited until I/we were in a suitable position, however sad that made me somethimes.

Being on benefits whether its the whole shabam or just partially isn't that fun, maybe you should try it. It's no where near the lifestyle you think it is and lets face it if you had to live my life, you probably wouldn't cope as your used to such luxuries.

See above.

The NHS funds IVF, something I oppose. I do not see why my taxes should be spent giving feckless middle class careerists the thing biology denies them because they were too selfish to step of the career ladder when they should have done.

I was nearly at the IVF stage once, and I suppose the polycystic ovaries and the fact I only ovulated twice a year had nothing to do with it?

I've just checked last month's pay slip, and last month I paid £471.40 in tax and £282.07 in National Insurance. I've been at this level for 5 years and not far below it previously.

Do you really not think I might have covered my own treatment?!!

If having a child is a lifestyle choice why should scant NHS resources be wasted on people that make selfish choices to delay motherhood in favour of feathering their own nests.

delay motherhood
I suffered from PCOS since my teens. Google it. And it's the women who have waited until they're in a position to have kids that will have paid a fortune in tax, so why shouldn't they get something back?

in favour of feathering their own nests.
Right, so that's your term for making sure you can afford your own children, is it? But our nest is rather beautiful. . . . .

Look, I'm getting quite hacked off now. The crux of the matter is that if you get knocked up before you're ready, financially, practically, emotionally, and in terms of relationships, then that was your choice and you should deal with the consequences. If your kids are going to starve, then IT IS YOUR JOB AS THEIR PARENT to make sure it doesn't happen and they are provided for.

Gee whizz, and people are inferring that I'm twisted. . . . . .

I rather thought the idea WAS to be financially secure before having children.

I know rather a lot about PCOS thank you and have no need to google. It can be helped by losing weight, eating low GI and exercise. There is rather a lot you can do to help yourself. Again though, that is all a lifestyle choice. Of course educated women tend to be rather better at getting help for themselves and accessing medical care from the NHS and of course they always have the option to pay if they are unhappy and are often more empowered to make better life style choices. Whilst I have every sympathy for you, it may have been helpful to have taken a different approach and decided not to play Russian roulette with nature in pursuit of wealth.

I wouldn't have a problem paying for my own IVF if I needed it (though infertility is not necessarily anything to do with age or 'delaying motherhood').

Personally I'd pay for my own maternity care as well as I don't much like what I've heard about what the NHS offers, and I have saved specifically for this.

In fact I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect those who can to pay at least part of the cost of their care - this could benefit us all ultimately as it might improve the quality of the care and give women more choices (if we were paying customers rather than grateful supplicants).