if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Mini. Sorry if you already know this.

I suggest you look at the 1960's. Society allowed thousands of babies to be taken into care and adopted. In 1966 there were over 90,000. The figures were almost as high throughout the decade and continued into the early 1970's.
The poor law did exist but few were advised about this, and generally if you didn't have the means to provide your children were taken, snatched at times.

Excellent use of the word snatched morethan, nice and emotive.

Yes, we were of course so much more civilised then. Middle class families will of course be only too happy to adopt these children, provided they are babies, they have blue eyes, they are white, they were not born to a drug addicted mother, they have few emotional problems and no disabilities.

Toombs.......we had social mobility then. Mostly because we had empowered labour.

I remember the days, there were childsnatchers on every street corner. A haggard man in his horse and cage trying to snare us. Just like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang it was..

Just as well it was London then and not Glasgow or Belfast Toombs.

Grammar schools provided social mobility, I went to university. I didn't need wealth to do it, I did it myself (with help).

Toombs - I'm not saying there shouldn't be private landlords am I? I'm saying the fact the councils are spending so much HB on private rents is wrong. In my case, my private rent was just over double the average social housing rent. Where is the sense in carrying on like this? It needs to be addressed really.

I couldn't help where I was brought up, don't hold that against me.

I think toombs is right, far more to do with grammar schools than "empowered labour" ( a meaningless phrase if ever I heard one)

I don't have vile opinions-the only vileness here is people expecting the rest of the world to bail them out all the time. It's not fair on those of us who have worked our backsides off, made some serious sacrifices for delayed gratification, and thought ahead a bit.

It's not people like me who should be ashamed of themselves, I can assure you.

There's such an attitude of letting life happen here-it's positively obscene.

'Night all.

Londonone.

I have done my homework, thats all. It happened to be a subject close to my heart and most of my dissertation, hence the figures.
What worries me are people like you who don't give a damn. It was people like you who stood by and did nothing, or at best accepted the situation.
Do you not see people losing their children through no fault of their own an emotive subject. The similarities are uncanny, a shortage of affordable homes, high unemployment and people like you judging these poor people.

I mentioned the film Cathy Come Home up thread, when this aired for the first time the switch board at the BBC was jammed for hours. It caused such an outcry that the Charity Shelter which coincidentally was due to open soon rushed to open. They had to repeat the programme and a quarter of the population watched it. Society was horrified at the plight of so many people, yet it was them who morally judged these people

Londonone et al. You are these people and your condemnation and attitude towards people less fortunate than yourselves in retrospect is dated in the 1960's. I hope you are a minority, for the sake of society.

Yes we had Grammar schools as well, so where are they now has cameron and Co any plan to bring back Grammar school? will unfed children be able to learn?

And I would just like to add that save the children have launched a champaign for children in poverty in the UK.

Cleary we already have destitute children in the UK. Saying it won't happen makes no sense because it already is.

That's a non sequitur if ever I heard one.

I didn't say it was your opinions I found vile therose but it's interesting you assumed I meant you. Maybe part of you knows your views are pretty abhorrent.

Mini - the difference is I don't see those people as losing their children through no fault of their own. If people persist in having children they can't support and need the state to support them, then no I don't think just dishing money out to the parents is the best way to go about it.

rose - but people aren't expecting others to bail them out 'all the time'

The numbers of people who stay on benefits as some kind of lifestyle choice are low.

The majority of people are getting help for the short term crisis they are facing. They too have worked hard but now face a problem they need and deserve support for.

But that's too messy for you to say isn't it. Far easier to tar all people on benefits with the same brush.

And for what it's worth, I hate this 'I work to support them' stuff. No. You work to support yourself and your own lifestyle choices. Your taxes go on services you use everyday. And a proportion of it goes to help those in need. Not the whole bloody lot as implied time and time again. And it's there should you need it.

I see cases all the time where quite frankly the kids lives would be a million times better if they had been removed at birth and adopted.

Homeless mummy, large numbers of people receive tax credits as an ongoing thing, not as a temporary measure.

Just been Christmas ponceing and just checked back for one last look - I didn't assume anything Newnames, just proffering my opinion that it's not me with the problem. Abhorrent?!! My views are just common sense to most, dear, sorry to disappoint.

but londonone - what if they had the children when they were confident they could support them and then things changed?

Do those people deserve support?

How on earth would you police that? you want benefits? please show me every wage slip since the time you conceived each child to prove you had them responsibly...

The problem is, if you start punishing the few that abuse the system the larger numbers of those who are genuinely in need will suffer. Those people who have worked hard but found themselves in a situation out of their control will suffer for the sake of some people being able to say 'Ha!Go and get a job you scum!'

You've been coming back for one last look for 24 hours!

Hold on... Did you call me 'dear'? It's Call Me Dave in disguise!

We should burn the children of poor people in our power stations, solves two problems at a stroke. Welsh ones would be preferable as they'd be impregnated with coal dust.

Then deal with the living wage issue.

Honestly, if it's come to benefits putting people in better positions financially there is something wrong with wage levels. Or fuel. Or Housing.

You really think cutting the welfare bill would make all working people so much better off? You think people would be taxed next to nothing?

Problem is toombs - on this thread that kind of comment could be totally serious.