To suggest people shouldn't be allowed donor organs unless they're registered organ donors themselves?

[TM08]

I had a conversation with my mum the other night, which has led on to me posting this thread.

She thinks that it might be possible to feel pain after death. She doesn't know what happens to our bodies, but she doesn't believe it's the end of us. For this reason, she wants cremated instead of buried, as she wouldn't want to be slowly eaten by worms for years after dying. Lovely.

Because of the pain after death thing, she doesn't want to be an organ donor. I asked "would you be happy to accept an organ if you needed one tomorrow?" and she said yes.

It just got me thinking how unfair this system is. People like my mum can get organs, but aren't willing to donate their own.

AIBU to think that if you are willing to accept an organ, you should be a registered organ donor yourself?

Oh right, dinnae realise that. (Ponders)
OK, so how about if anyone under your roof has a transplant (DH/DC etc) then the rest of the family are put on the list?

I dunno, you can't force people to donate.

But I do think that if they actively refuse to donate (as in there is an opt-out system and they have opted out), then maybe they should be knocked down a bit on the waiting list.

It shouldn't affect their children though - they can't help what their parents do.

no, it isn't for other people to understand what happens to my body

your dead body.

Why do you care?

It will rot, or be turned into ashes.
Surely getting a few organs in somebody else is not that bad.

ATourch,
it's not going to happen.
As you are finding out it would be too complex and ethically debatable.

I was just wondering if they might feel happier to donate if they realised the importance of it from a loved one needing a transplant. I would like to think that, even if they had previously opted out, if they needed and used an organ they might rethink whether it is a noble thing to do.
Assuming it is not a religious reason.

Leuiji - I think there are few protesters to the opt out.
I think the main issue would be for a minority who wouldn't want non-donors to be seen as greedy. No one who agrees to donate would think they were winning in any way, just that they are selfish and that should not be encouraged.

I didn't mean the opt out.

Yabu
Would you say the sane for receiving blood? Some people can give or donate, what happens to them?

Why can't anyone answer the question of whether donating blood and being willing to donate bone marrow would be enough to prevent 'bumping down the list' in a case where someone had oped put of donating organs after death but then needed an organ?

One of the reasons that I feel uncomfortable with donating organs after my death at the moment is that I don't feel there is enough information available on the subject. I think it's an issue that is very much under publicised.

It all hangs on whether inter person donation of anything blood organs bone marrow is something you consider part of medical treatment. If you do and would be willing to literally do anything should you or one of your children become that ill then you can't really say no with any conviction.

If you go down this route then, IMO, you have to go down the route of not offering medical treatment to people who fail other "tests" of eligibility. Is this really were the health service should be headed?

sorry if this has been said already but she thinks being cremated at such a high temperature that her bones turn to dust will be 'less painful' than being nibbled at by worms?!! People are bizarre!! :0

Outraged Personally I don't think anyone should be bumped down the list no matter what they have or have not been prepared to donate. But if there was to be a system which evaluated people on that basis, then I would say that giving blood ought to count as a positive thing in their favour.

What information do you think you lack about organ donation? I've seen plenty of information online about it, if you go to the blood donation website for instance there are links about other kinds of donation. I don't think the information is that hard to find if you take a look.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos

One of the reasons that I feel uncomfortable with donating organs after my death at the moment is that I don't feel there is enough information available on the subject.

What, death or organ donation?

Oh, and OATPoF presumably if you're uncomfortable at the idea of post-morten donation, you wouldn't accept one anyway... not being a hypocrite and all.

Chap, organ donation.

I want to know more about what would happen at my hospital, and how long after a brain death they would be prepared to keep someone's heart beating. Is there any difference (in my area) to what would happen if I died at 2 am on a Sunday morning or if I died at 1 pm on a Wednesday for example.

I have read the information on the NHS website, because I'm not entirely at peace with my choice not to donate. I do undertsand how important organ donation is, and I would love for someone to say something that will make me feel differently about it. But it just hasn't happened yet.

I guess if you want specifics about your area, you'd have to write to the relevant health authority to ask for their current policy.

But I'd be interested to know why that level of detail would make a difference to you between donating and not? You would be dead, and their policy on how long your organs might be kept in usable condition isn't going to be a bother to you at that stage.

OATPoF the answer, as with all of these things

It depends.
What did you die of; were you a registered donor; did your family give consent.
How well set up your haospital was, were there harvest surgeons available, what organ type/matches have you (though cornea they can take from just about anyone).

Ask your local Health Trust/hospital.

So, I repeat, presumably you won't take an organ either?

It bothers me now to think that I might be dead but that my body could be kept going for hours. I don't like the thought of it. I want my body and my soul to 'go' as close together as possible. I don't like the idea of hours of being in limbo between life and death. You can tell me I'd be dead, but if a heart is still beating then that's not properly dead in my mind. That's just the way I feel about it.

But your ok with receiving an organ.

Hypocrisy, plain and simple.

I have no problem with people who genuinely do not agree with organ transplantation. I strongly disagree with them but respect their right to their opinions.

I've held off commenting on this because although it's something I feel very strongly about this thread seems to be full of people who are deliberately missing the point.

I definitely agree it should be opt out, and whilst I agree in principle with not receiving unless you would be willing to give, it is sadly unworkable.

The ethics involved in making a judgement on who you deem worthy of saving are far to complex and personal. It has to be the sickest we save first, it's basic humanity imo.

*you're

OMC, why should I answer your question when I have repeatedly asked one and no one has bothered to answer?

Because I'm not that petty maybe? Ok then. I don't know if I'd accept an organ. I know the thought of it now feels uncomfortable, but I think that if I was in the position of needing an organ then the desire to stay alive would outweigh anything else. For many reasons, especially that as I have children, my life is not 100% my own. And, as I donate blood and am on the bone marrow register, and I contribute to society in many ways, I don't think that I would be completely unworthy of receiving a gift that someone wanted to give.

Might not be an answer you like, so attack it if you want, but there it is.

But you won't be "between life and death" - you'll be dead. If you believe your soul is going somewhere, then it will go when your brain dies, and if you believe you just stop when you die, then you'll stop. Brain death is death, the thing that makes you "you" stops at that point, and what is left is an empty container. Whether that container still has a pump running or not, it's still empty and you are gone - onwards or just gone.

There seems to be a difference in what it's reasonable to think, ie if you're not prepared to donate then perhaps you shouldn't be able to receive and what we actually want to do to people ie say "I know you're critically ill and everything but because you didn't think properly about this earlier you can't have the treatment you need". I think it's like that with lots of moral dilemmas. And actually is it fair to punish people for being less well informed and understanding? My parents were medics and used to dealing with critical situations so I was brought up not being squeamish about it and understanding it's importance. Others not so much.

and if you believe you just stop when you die, then you'll stop.

And there's the crux of it. What if I don't believe that? What if I'm not sure what I believe about death in religious/spiritual terms, and that makes me have a real and valid worry? What if I have a husband who says to me that as much as he wants to be able to help others, he doesn't think he could cope with the thought of my body being kept going and then having things taken from it, possibly for hours, after he has just been told I'm dead?