To suggest people shouldn't be allowed donor organs unless they're registered organ donors themselves?

[TM08]

I had a conversation with my mum the other night, which has led on to me posting this thread.

She thinks that it might be possible to feel pain after death. She doesn't know what happens to our bodies, but she doesn't believe it's the end of us. For this reason, she wants cremated instead of buried, as she wouldn't want to be slowly eaten by worms for years after dying. Lovely.

Because of the pain after death thing, she doesn't want to be an organ donor. I asked "would you be happy to accept an organ if you needed one tomorrow?" and she said yes.

It just got me thinking how unfair this system is. People like my mum can get organs, but aren't willing to donate their own.

AIBU to think that if you are willing to accept an organ, you should be a registered organ donor yourself?

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

I don't want to donate organs, and that's not for other people to be able to understand or not. I don't have to justify it and I don't give a shit whether others understand or not, my body, my choice.

Of course it is for people other people to understand or not. The issue affects people's lives. Closing down debate saying "I don't have to justify it" makes others think you haven't thought it through or don't have a sensible reason.

Sorry to take the thread back a few pages, but in response to the response that was given to me, no, it isn't for other people to understand what happens to my body. It doesn't matter if i have thought it through, I don't have to have a sensible reason.

After the recent abortion threads where the majority of MN appears to be pro choice, why doesn't that respect for choice transfer across into this debate? Why is a persons right to choice about their own body so important when it comes to unwanted pregnancy, but not when it comes to organ donation.

I'd also like my question to be answered by those that agree that you shouldn't receive organs unless you donate, about how much you have to be willing to do before you would get an organ. Is donating blood and being willing to donate bone marrow enough? Or would you deny someone an organ who was willing to donate both of those things but unwilling to donate after their death?

[MaryZed]

If you think donating is wrong for you and your family, why do you think it would be right for someone else.

I'm genuinely interested - the only reason I can think of for not donating is not liking the whole idea for some reason, in which case I'm surprised you would be happy to accept an organ.

If you want to use the abortion analogy, it's a bit like someone who thinks abortion is wrong having one themselves in certain circumstances.

I'm not sure that the debate crosses over into donating blood/bone marrow, as both of those aren't as "final" as donating organs after death.

[mrsrosieb]

I want to raise the question what about those who need a transplant but cannot carry a donor card because of their illness? A good example are those who need a liver transplant due to Hepatitis B (a blood-borne virus) but cannot carry a card-or if they did there is no way their organs could be used. Another example are those awaiting a heart-lung transplant for cystic fibrosis. As this is a multi-organ disease their organs cannot be donated.

[BegoniaBampot]

I kind of agree. It's a bit off if you would accept an organ but not donate. I used to feel icky about organ donation but then once I had children and had read some stories about people (especially children) dying because of a lack of donors- I signed up. Obviously people who are I'll and needing a transplant wouldn't be required to donate if their organs were not suitable.

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

If you think donating is wrong for you and your family, why do you think it would be right for someone else.

It's not up to me to decide if its right for someone else. It might be right or them, it might not. Their choice, not mine. It's not up to me to decide for my family either, even my children to a certain extent.

[YouMayLogOut]

YABU

[BegoniaBampot]

outraged - would you accept an organ for you or any children though? How would you feel if your child had been ill would die and was waiting for an organ - Gould you be more willing to donate then?

[nightowlmostly]

I think the main difference between this debate and the abortion issue is the fact that when you donate your organs you are dead, and it won't actually affect you at all. That is slightly different to not being able to choose whether to go through pregnancy and birth, and then be responsible for a whole new person, don't you think?

And outraged, you may not think you have to have a good reason, but I don't get why you would potentially deny someone their chance to live without one tbh.

[ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight]

I also think if its ok with the recipient families you should be able to see the good allowing the taking of a loved ones organs can do.

Would help to reassure you you made the right decision and help with the grieving process.

[jeee]

I feel extremely uncomfortable about the idea that there should be anything other than medical conditions used to assess suitability for transplant.
Obviously a person with alcoholic liver disease needs to demonstrate that they are no longer drinking - but this isn't a moral test, it's a physical requirement.

As soon as a person is found to be medically suitable for transplantation, then that is enough. I don't want a situation where the pretty, kind, lovely mother is seen as a more suitable candidate than that grumpy, rude and frankly quite ugly man.

I hope people can find it in themselves to approve the transplantation of their loved ones organs. My sister was given two livers (she had congenital liver disease, and with hindsight was already showing symptons of liver failure in her early teens), but when she went on the transplant list for the third time she was not so fortunate.

I will be forever grateful to those families who gave my sister several more years of life. She got back to work, got a place at the Beijing paralympics (though she was too ill to attend), and made the most of her extra years. So please, do go on the donor list - not because it means you should be entitled to an organ should you need one, but for all those people who didn't even get the extra years that my sister did.

[BegoniaBampot]

Well I guess the way I looked at it eventually was, if I would accept an organ for me or a loved one then I had to be willing to donate in return. It's quite simple really.

[MaryZed]

I think this should be added to the curriculum for whatever is the equivalent of the old civics in secondary school.

With the aim of having it generally accepted that donating blood, marrow or more should be the norm, and that doing otherwise is in some way surprising at least.

Kids follow each other like sheep. If you could get them all on side when they are young, the attitude would grow with them.

Whereas as it is, unless their parents are pro-active, or they have a friend who is very ill, it won't even occur to them.

[quirrelquarrel]

An eye for an eye, etc. It works the other way. I would be perfectly happy for anyone not registered to get one of my organs. It's not some kind of "you deserve it, you get priority" system, god.

[Molehillmountain]

I have three children conceived with donor sperm. After dd1 was born I agonised over donating eggs as it seemed to be the logical, pay it forward thing to do. As it happens, I was too old by the time my family was complete to be able to do it anyway but actually being the recipient made me too conscious of what is be giving up. I wonder if it might be a bit similar with donor organs-I'm guessing the op meant if you'd previously opted out you couldn't get donor organs, not necessarily people who were already recipients but I wouldn't blame someone who'd received a donor heart say, feeling less likely to want to donate in the futire. Too close for confort. I also don't like the whiff it has of punishing people who are very seriously ill for not understanding how important it was to be registered when it was an abstract concept back when they were well.

[misdee]

Dh can't donate :(

[SauvignonBlanche]

I find it morally repugnant and very upsetting that there are so many people who would accept an organ transplant but would not donate.

[NovackNGood]

No different than those who take benefits but have never paid a penny in taxes is it.

[noddyholder]

not exactly. I can't donate

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I think it's exactly the same. Doubtless novack is reminding us that most decent folk don't begrudge benefits to those in medical need, either.

You'd have to be a total wanker to begrudge benefits to people who've never been able to work for medical reasons, wouldn't you?

[Jenny70]

So children wouldn't be given a transplant if their parents hadn't signed them up for the organ donation?

Or would it be OK to "check the box" once you're on the transplant list - bit late, many of your organs wouldn't be needed by the time you're that sick.

It seems a bit like blackmail to refuse medical treatment on such grounds.

I think the opt out is best, if you DON'T want to donate, then get off your butt and call the register. If you've never bothered to opt out, then you can't have been that mindful of it.

[MaryZed]

noddy, it's been said lots of times, by lots of people, that there is a huge difference between can't and won't donate.

No-one is suggesting that someone who can't, for whatever reason, should. Only that there is something rather odd about deciding that you won't donate, but will accept a donation.

It would be like deliberately refusing to nominate or donate to the Christmas appeal on here, and then announcing on a thread "I refuse point blank to nominate or donate, but if anyone wants to send me something, I'll happily accept". Obviously if you can't donate (you live too far away, you haven't enough money, you aren't organised enough, or unwell, this wouldn't apply).

[ATourchOfInsanity]

Slowly catching up with the thread.
Out of interest, the Docs on here; I was wondering how feasible it would be if say, 80% of the population had agreed to donate. Would we have the facilities available? Do we even have a rough idea of how much of the population would donate/carry a card?

I ask because when my mum died, she was happy to have her organs donated. Had a card in her purse etc. Only thing that actually was taken were her corneas (I got a lovely letter saying that she had given someone the gift of sight, which was really wonderful). I was just wondering if we are all being too idealistic with regards to what is actually possible with the NHS?

And whoever it was who said they and their children would not donate but would take, would you still accept the organ if it meant you automatically had to go on the donor register afterwards?

[Lueji]

would you still accept the organ if it meant you automatically had to go on the donor register afterwards?

I don't think you can be a donor if you have received a transplant before.