To suggest people shouldn't be allowed donor organs unless they're registered organ donors themselves?

[TM08]

I had a conversation with my mum the other night, which has led on to me posting this thread.

She thinks that it might be possible to feel pain after death. She doesn't know what happens to our bodies, but she doesn't believe it's the end of us. For this reason, she wants cremated instead of buried, as she wouldn't want to be slowly eaten by worms for years after dying. Lovely.

Because of the pain after death thing, she doesn't want to be an organ donor. I asked "would you be happy to accept an organ if you needed one tomorrow?" and she said yes.

It just got me thinking how unfair this system is. People like my mum can get organs, but aren't willing to donate their own.

AIBU to think that if you are willing to accept an organ, you should be a registered organ donor yourself?

[WhenLifeGivesYouLemons]

This is definitely something families need to discuss.

Definitely Noddy. Does this get spoken about in schools at all? because it seems like it would be a good opportunity to engage in a proper discussion with it for those with parents that won't talk about it.

[noddyholder]

I am with you misdee. No one can ever know the fear of being kept alive by a machine. You feel like half a person and are desperate. Hope Peter continues to do well

[noddyholder]

The 'grabbing every moment' is the real upside of all this misdee don't you think? I live every day never look back and am grateful for everything

[misdee]

so do i, noddy. 5years gone by in a flash. now clinging onto every heart transplant story i read of people reaching 10/15/20/25 years.

each day is one more than we thought possible.

[noddyholder]

I had a scare recently and know how you feel. Life is precious I think few people would say no to an organ when they are on their last legs looking at the terrified faces of partners friends family.

[misdee]

there are photos in my profile. a group of five (dd 1,2,3,4 and ds. and one of dd5) dd4, dd5 and ds are one of the 'ripples' of dh transplant. my three little miracles.

[noddyholder]

I think thats great! They are all gorgeous he must be made of strong stuff

[misdee]

thank you. dd5 was a speedy delivery and peter helped as we didnt get to the hospital in time. she is 6months old and soooo cheeky

[noddyholder]

Wow 5 you must be busy! Lucky though

[MaryZed]

[sigh]

"So you would let a child die because the parents had not filled a form out? That is sick."

Where did the op say that? The op is saying that people who refuse to be donors should not get donations. Children can't refuse to be donors [baffled].

misdee, I think your posts on here about transplant made an awful lot of people think about something that hadn't been pushed under their noses before. I think a lot more people would be fine about donating if the persuasion to do so was done before the event, rather than as a result of a loved one dying .

I have tried to talk to my children and their friends about this (and about blood and marrow donation due to following MrsDeVere's story with Billie ), and I haven't yet come across a teenager who would refuse to donate for any reason.

The trouble is that with no easy system of opting in/out, many of them would never even have their wishes heard, and relatives are left trying to make decisions in horrible circumstances.

[misdee]

6 noddy. Very busy.

Mary, I hope that by going public about peters story really did help people think about organ donation. I know I'm not on here much these days ( 6 children keep me busy) and it was just by chance I popped on today.

Life could've been so different if not for those generous donors. A hero with a halo.

[mrsrosieb]

MaryZed

I used to work as a doctor. If a child is too young to be deemed Gillick competent all consent has to come from the parents. Duh.

[MaryZed]

I do think the personal stories make a massive difference. And yours is a lovely one, with a happy ending .

[MaryZed]

What's that got to do with anything, mrsrosie?

Are you saying the parents will refuse a donation? That's nothing to do with this thread [baffled]

And adding Duh to the end of a post makes your post sound very childish, btw.

[mrsrosieb]

[baffled] lol

[mrsrosieb]

As for what a medical degree is "to do with anything"-I have attended countless lectures on compentency to consent and medical ethics. I have even written papers on medical ethics and sat exams in the subject.

[MaryZed]

Ok, well, would you like to explain just who you think wants to let a child die because their parents won't fill in a form. Just go up the thread, and give me the name of one poster who has said that. So that you can justify saying that people are "sick".

Because I genuinely don't understand where you are coming from, which is why I'm confused.

[MaryZed]

No, not your medical degree , it's the Gillick competent comment that has nothing to do with the thread.

We aren't talking here about parents refusing to let their children accept organs.

At least, I'm not. Maybe everyone else is. Are you?

[perfumedlife]

I think YANBU but children should not be included in that. I have donated all of me, save dh a fortune on coffins and cars, leaves more for a party

[nightowlmostly]

My sister had to have a liver transplant, so I feel very strongly that we should have an opt-out system, and relatives shouldn't be allowed to refuse on your behalf.

Also, on the subject of children, when we registered our DS at the doctor, we had to fill in a form which had the question on it whether we would register him as a donor. As much as it hurts to think of it ever being necessary, we said yes, he would be a donor if the worst ever happened. I would want his tragic death to help some other family if possible.

I think the OP is right as far as the morality of it goes, people who are prepared to receive an organ should be prepared to donate. But in reality it would be unworkable in law and wouldn't really be right. Same goes for alcoholics, I wouldn't want to live in society that judges people and sentences them to death because of their questionable life choices. Many people who end up with drug and alcohol problems have had a very rough start in life, it's not for us to judge them.

[sudaname]

My DGD aged 12 has CF and a heart/lung or 'just' lungs are apparantly becoming a more viable possibility for the future and are at the moment the only realistic 'cure'. I am all for making organ donation as 'easy' as possible therefore and in favour of the 'opt out' rather than 'opt in' system or at very least to make it impossible to be overruled by surviving next of kin as in current system , so that they are 'informed' their loved one is a card carrying donor rather than asked if it's ok.

But l have an ulterior motive clearly.

[FTRsMammy]

I work on a transplant unit (for obvious reasons I won't say which one) and transplantation is a very under publicised issue. IMO the reason a lot of people are not on the donor register is due to lack of education regarding transplantation and because its just not in a lot of people's consciousness. I talk to my ds age 3.8 about what happens at mummy's hospital, not where the organs come from but why we transplant. I think yanbu to think your mum is being a little hypocritical however I do think its U to to say that if you won't give you can't receive, realistically it just wouldn't work.

[mrsrosieb]

Sorry to use the word "duh"-I agree that was inappropriate.

Actually transplant ethics is a massive subject that the medical profession is divided on.

One area I researched is the ethics of transplanting livers into recovered alcoholics and people who have taken paracetamol overdoses (which can cause acute liver failure). I personally believe these people should get transplants, but shockingly (to me) I am in the minority on this one.

A child is deemed Gillick competent if they are said to understand the consequences of making a decision. It is most often used in the decision to prescribe the pill in underage girls. Most children reach Gillick competence at about 13, but each case has to be decided on its own merits. Before a child reaches this level all consent has to be made by parents.

Younger children whose parents have not filled in a donor card on their behalf are not legally allowed to be donors (unless parents give verbal consent around the time of death). According to the OP those who are not registered should not receive organs.

Many adults do not have donor cards because the thought never crosses their mind, or because they do not want to consider what some feel is a morbid topic. There are also those whose organs would never be acceptable (eg those with hepatitis B) who actually need a transplant because of their infection. There are also those with religious viewpoints. I have only ever once come across a case where someone refused a transplant due to religious views (a Jehovah's witness).

Although I appreciate the ethical viewpoint of the OP it would be incredibly complex to implement. Transplant ethics is a highly complex topic anyway, but a very interesting one.

[mrsrosieb]

Oh and I absolutely agree it should be an opt-out system.

[MaryZed]

That's a much more sensible post than just calling people sick . I agree, it is complex and interesting (as long, of course, as you or a loved on aren't on a waiting list in which case it must be hell). I don't think anyone thinks a child shouldn't be allowed to receive if the parents aren't willing to donate, but I do think that it is hypocritical to say "I would accept a heart, but not give mine".

I can understand, however, people not wanting to give children's organs - that must be the ultimate sacrifice, to allow your dead child to donate, and I have so much admiration for people who make such decisions.

I also agree that no-one except for the transplant teams should have any say in who gets the organs. It would be nice to have a list "I'd like my heart to go to a lovely woman under 45 who has small children and doesn't smoke or drink", but imagine the mess (morally and medically) allowing donors and their families that would leave us in.