To wonder if I'm marrying the right man?

[takesthebiscuit]

The wedding is booked and paid for. Our friends have forked out for hen/stag dos, accommodation and probably gifts. If I called it off now I would feel terrible.

But I can't shake this feeling that I might be making a mistake. I don't know what to do.

I live DP, we've been together 11 years, engaged 9 and only just had the money to enable us to get married. We also have 3 DCs. Why I'm with him - he makes me laugh, he's very funny and sometimes I can't stay mad at him. We also have a lot of history and on a practical level he is a hard worker with a good job and owns his own home. Most importantly he is a good father.

BUT - he is very traditional re women's/mans roles in the house. I do everything and the cast majority of child care. I don't mind this being a SAHM but he won't help on weekends. I can't talk to him either because of his fundamental view about what my role should be. I notice this is a common theme on here though so maybe I should accept it? Perhaps he can be trained?

He acts like I should be grateful for him allowing me to live in his house. I find this very upsetting. He will sometimes accuse me of being lazy when the house is a mess but I can never get it to his standards and he underestimates how long things take and how hard it can be looking after a toddler all day. He thinks I shouldn't take her to classes etc until the house is spotless, but, I think it's good for her and the house will only get messed up again. I do my best. I also volunteer two mornings a week.

I'm beginning to lose my attraction for him. He's not a conventionally good looking bloke anyway but I have always found him physically attractive. Recently though, something has changed. His fears turn my stomach and sometimes when we're laid in bed and I've been breathing his fumes for hours I feel stabby. He eats with his mouth full. People post pictures of him drunk on FB and he looks a mess. It's embarrassing. I don't go out drinking with him anymore because he's a total teat when drunk. He's a selfish lover. I very rarely finish so to speak.

None of these things are massive issues in themselves but we are arguing a lot more recently. That could be because of the stress of the wedding, or it could be that I joined MN a couple of months ago and my views are starting to change re what is acceptable in a relationship. But I also worry that we are just incompatible and it will never work. I've changed since we met. Or is this all just cold feet and normal thought processes when it sinks in that this will be the only man I will ever be with, for the rest of my life?

I have issues with men anyway so it's not like I think I can find better. What do I do?

OP, I would really urge you to seek CBT on your own. You don't have a communications problem, you have a self-esteem problem that leads you to stay with this vile man.

You say you don't have good trust or experience with men, but you have been with this loser for your entire adult life. You haven't had a chance to really see what's out there.

It is NOT best for your DC if you stay. They will be learning incredibly damaging things about relationships, and imagine how they will feel someday when they figure out you only stayed for their benefit.

At the very least, before you decide, find out whether it's possible, as someone noted above, that you could actually be allowed to stay in the house with your DC if you split. Because I imagine, if that were the case, you would be much more tempted to break up.

Do not marry him

Don't think to yourself that you will sort it after the wedding. Things will not have changed. If anything, they will be more complicated, because you then have the faff of a divorce added on top of the bullshit that is likely to come your way from him.

This man told you that everything would be okay if you just did the house work. Can you see how degrading that is?

You're saying you need to stay for the DCs, but do you really want them to feel the way you do now when they're older? Or worse, act like he does? Because the longer you stay, the more you normalise it. The more you let them think this is an acceptable way to be treated and to treat women.

Don't do that to yourself, or to them.

Thank you again to everybody for replying.

I'm so so confused right now. I really don't know what to do for the best. I have nowhere to go at the moment. My parents are helping my sister (which I have posted about before) so they would be unable to take us in. I have no friends that would have space for four of us. DC2 has just started school, I don't want to disrupt things for her.

I know that I should not marry him but he will throw me out if I cancel the wedding and then we will be homeless. Yes, I could ask for the courts to help me but that all takes time. I don't think this will be treated as urgent as he is not violent.

Despite all this, I'm still telling myself that maybe it could work. I know that is stupid but we have a councelling session booked so at least he recognises that there is a problem.

I want to do the right thing but it's so hard. I wish we never booked the wedding, then things wouldn't be so complicated.

He does not recognise there is a problem - arses like him use councelling session to pacify and stop you "nagging", and as a sounding off board for all your faults.

Do you know he would throw you out? Has he threatened it before?

Biscuit can I give you a warning?
From what you have said in your last post, it looks like your DP is actually a cheat but also abusive.
The sinking feeling and the knot before he comes back home, the fact he is threatening you (if you don't marry me, I will kick you and the dcs out of the house. What sort of father would do that to his children? What sort of loving husband would do that to his STBwife?). The fact there are 2 rules, one for you, one for him. That he feels he can just order you about (you should not bf, you have to bf, what you are mix feeding?!, do more HW etc...).
All that makes me feel he is emotionally abusive (and that's only going from the bits you've told us, which actually don't depict him in too bad way :()

In that case, joint counselling is likely to be at best a waste of time and at worse very damaging for you.
He will put things in such a way that you will look bad and you won't be able to say a word and defend yourself. He will use it to destroy your self esteem even more.

I do realize that you are looking at this session as a bit of last hope, the last thing you can do that will save you all from years of misery.
But please be careful. Joint counselling is never a good idea when one partner is abusive/emotionally abusive.

Ok, so the immediate stumbling block is where do you go in the short term?

How much (honestly) is this stumbling block psychological? What strikes me is that no-one except you knows you're having these thoughts, right? So your family and friends can't help you and make suggestions for your first step. You've already decided that you WILL get thrown out and it WILL be completely impossible to find somewhere to live when nobody even knows you need help. And therefore you're frozen into inactivity.

I think you're doing this because the first step (leaving) will be the scariest, and I think it won't be as impossible as you're currently assuming. If the stakes are high enough (and bloody hell, I think they are here) you, your family and friends would find a way of making something very temporary work. It wouldn't be ideal, and it would be a far cry from the safe, comfortable way you live now. But it would be temporary.

I take seriously the quandary you are in, particularly as regards debt. But this immediate problem of what you would do in the hours and days after you call it off should NOT be a reason not to do it. Think of it from the future's perspective. Can you see yourself looking back after ten years' more farting unpleasantness and cheating and thinking, "Oh god, if only we'd all got sleeping bags and camped on my best mate's sitting room floor"?

OK, I've been thinking about what you wrote and wanted to maybe give you some other things to think about and play devils advocate to some extent.

You have said a lot about what is bad about your dp, but what is good about him? Do you think he is basically a decent man or not? If he were talking about you openly and honestly to a friend of his, what would he say? Does he care about you? Does he even possibly have a point about the housework?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to blame you or to say your parner is fautless. But if mumsnet relationship advice has one failing it is, in my opinion, to be far too swift to recommend a poster ditch her parner/husband. (That's why I have never asked for advice about my own situation which bears many similarities to your own - I suspect the advice would be to "dump" my husband, which is not something I am prepared to do.)

What I am trying to say is to look at this situation from all angles. I struggled to keep on top of housework (even though I consider myself houseproud) and found that adopting a routine in the Flylady mode really helped. Before that, I felt as if I was constantly cleaning and tidying and never getting anywhere.

The farts issue.... does this irritate you more now because your dp irritates you more or has it actually got worse. Could there possibly be a medical issue? (I know this doesn't excuse his, ahem, "lack of consideration").

Have you ever explained to him how uncomfortable and unhappy it makes you feel, that you are living in "his" house? Would he be amenable to moving home or at least redecorating to help you put your stamp on things?

And I agree with other posters about the counselling. As far as he's concerned, your "communication problems" as a couple amount to you not doing as he tells you! He almost certainly thinks the point of the counselling is to get you to do the housework.

Bradbourne - you are not being cynical, but realistic and factual. Marriage is for the financial security of the woman, don't some women know that? Being married means you automatically share 50/50 your joint assets and if there are children involved the woman gets the house in a divorce, financial support for herself and the children.

Maybe you need to think about this in tiny steps.

Is there anyone you trust to take you seriously in real life that you could talk to? As in just tell them you're having serious doubts. I'm wondering if this would make you feel like you were making progress with the problem, without it being scary no-way-back decision-making.

digerd
Being married means you automatically share 50/50 your joint assets and if there are children involved the woman gets the house in a divorce, financial support for herself

Thank God that's not always the case.

XW got the house that I'd paid for (yes, she worked full time as well), I paid generous CSA style maintenance - and she got naff all as support for her; nor should she have done!

you automatically share 50/50 your joint assets

That isn't true. That's the starting point.

This is what is taken into consideration:

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

Note that in relation to earnings potential, mortgage capacity is also considered.

Ready to be lambasted but, personally I'd try to work it out with him, and if all else fails, and you split up, then you'll be in a better position financially, if you marry him rather than cohabit.

I'm still telling myself that maybe it could work

Well biscuit, maybe it will. Maybe if you are married, and have a more secure position, you will feel more able to assert yourself and deal with these problems.

Maybe then you can start counselling again - with a different counsellor!

I cannot recommend this book highly enough. Try and get hold of a copy from Amazon before your next counselling session:

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0704334208/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

After 11 years and 3 children together, why should he be able to tell you to get out? That kind of nonsense would have to stop if you were married. At best, while you're living together the best you could hope for would be to stay in your home until your youngest child is 18. Then leave with nothing.

Do you know his reasons for obsessing with getting married to you, as men are financially worse off in a divorce ? Or does he think being your legal husband he has more power over you somehow? There is definately an issue here with him. Could it be that he wants you and his children to be financially secure if anything happened to him?

I will try address some of the points raised.

Yes he has threatened to kick me out. It is always in the heat of an argument so if it after a calm discussion he may react differently. Having said that, if I was to cancel the wedding he would be furious due to the waste of money. I don't think he is obsessed with marrying me as such, we have been engaged a long time and the money became available so we went for it. I assume he wants to get married for the same reasons most people do.

It's hard to answer the point on housework. We both have different standards of what is acceptable. I like my nick nack type things (I'm a slight horder) and he is into minimalism. When he comes home and the house is a 'mess' (usually the kids have got all the toys out) he is annoyed with me and makes sure I know it. He only ever notices what has not been done rather than what has. But that goes back to him just not understanding how long things take and how hard it is with a toddler. I just want him to see things from my perspective and appreciate all I do a bit more.

With regards to the house, I wouldn't feel right taking it from him anyway. He bought it outright before we met. I don't really feel like I'm entitled to it.

Someone asked earlier what would be worse, staying with him for the rest of my life or being a single mum. Right now being a single mum would be worse. But having said that, the way things are at the moment, I would feel uncomfortable saying the vows. We have hit a rough patch recently, I definitely haven't always felt like this or I wouldn't have booked the wedding.

I don't know, I'm really confused.

Remember this biscuit?

Why I'm with him - he makes me laugh, he's very funny and sometimes I can't stay mad at him. We also have a lot of history and on a practical level he is a hard worker with a good job and owns his own home. Most importantly he is a good father.

Do you think you might just be feeling rather down? Getting married is quite stressful at the best of times. Soon your children will be older and they won't be leaving their crap all over the show! You'll hardly see them.

Also, no-one is accusing you of wanting to "take the house" - but you must surely realise you have contributed a huge amount to your life together, and sadly that is only recognised if you are married. It's about what's fair - it's not about taking him for every penny!

You seem to think that you have no option but to marry him. I think that there would be other options open to you. I would have thought that if you leave him, taking the children with you, then your local authority would be obliged to treat you as homeless and provide accommodation. I would suggest you approach your local authority for advice to see what assistance they might be able to offer

"With regards to the house, I wouldn't feel right taking it from him anyway. He bought it outright before we met. I don't really feel like I'm entitled to it."

Your children are entitled to it.

Biscuit,

I am sorry but he doesn't know how hard it is to look after a toddler because ... he has never done it on his own for a whole week, weekend, day? When is the last time he took responsibility for his dc and looked after him? Not doing childcare, helping you out but actually being responsible of it?
Regarding the housework, when is the last time he actually cleaned the house, put the washing to go, actually took responsibility to ensure that all the clothes were cleaned and ironed for the Monday morning when everyone goes back to work/school?

Your DP doesn't know because he never had to do it and has never tried to do it
Perhaps it is time for an eye opening session. A weekend where he has to look after the dcs, do the HW (to his standards of course!), cook, clean and ensure everyone has some clean clothes for the Monday. A whole weekend all on his own?
All that whilst you are .... I don't know having a weekend away with friends to celebrate your incoming wedding?

How do you think he would react? Would he accept graciously or would he be completely against it?
Would you buy into the 'But I can't do it, I don't know how to/I will do it very badly' line?

Difference in level of tidiness is one thing. I tend to be messy, my DP is very organised, nothing should be left on the table type of person. I am happy to leave stuff lying around because I know I am going to use them soon within a week.
But he would NOT make a comment about it every time he comes home to the point I am dreading it and have a knot in my stomach.
Because nice people don't do that.
Because he loves me, he is happy to accept me with my 'defects' too and does not expect me to change to his standards. His ways of doing things aren't automatically the right ones and mines the bad ones.
We discuss, we compromise, we accept that we are different. (And I accept he is doing things differently too. I would not make a fuss because he doesn't hang the washing properly or doesn't clean the worktop the 'right' way)

Finally, I wouold like you to remember something re the house or any assets or debts that you both might have.
You have been living together for 11 years. You've had 3 dcs together. You have been a SAHM and looked after the dcs, cooked, cleaned for the whole family and that includes him too.
How much, money wise, do you think that is worth?

Childcare for one child full time: about £700 pm now?
Cleaner coming everyday: £500 pm??
Washing done and ironed: £50 per week just for him?
When you add all that (more than £2500pm disposable income), by how much do you think you have contributed to the household? What is your %? At least 50%, more?
If your DH has been able to do the job he is doing, it's because you have done all that. You have been contributing the the maintenance of the house, insurance etc.. for 11 years. Don't you think you deserve some part of it?

It's not about money grabbing. The reality is that after 11 years together, assets and debts are considered joints (or at least it is when you are married and esp when dcs are involved). And that's the reason why.

Biscuit, I think you've been selling yourself short for so long, you've forgotten what you're worth.

Can I just say, you are worth more than this.

You said in your original post that, on the plus side, you 'can't stay mad at him'. Did that apply when he cheated on you the first time? And the second time? And the third?

I'm stunned that you have managed to brush this under the carpet.

You sound funny and lovely. It's not surprising that you feel confused and reluctant to go ahead with marrying someone who clearly doesn't cherish you.

You sa he doesn't know how hard it is - does he never look after the DCs himself?

ExP always used to comment on the state of my house... And then I deliberately started being out of the house / leaving them to it all day, 10am-8pm, including bed time. It was really difficult the first time. And he moaned about how tired he was. I did it a few more times. He stopped bitching about the state of the house, and actually said to me he didn't know how I managed every day.

You are worth so much more than he has made you feel like, you know.

Someone asked earlier what would be worse, staying with him for the rest of my life or being a single mum. Right now being a single mum would be worse.

As I said before, I'm a single parent and so are lots of others on this forum. I can't speak for them but personally I'd rather be a single parent for the rest of my life than be in a second-rate relationship with a man who has so little respect for me that he treats me like an unpaid domestic slave and criticises what I do while fucking around behind my back.

He's really done a number on you if you think the above is preferable to being a single parent.

Being a single mum is WAY better than putting up with the shit he puts you thtough.

You're being abused in every way, don't marry him, he'll get WORSE!