...to feel like a shit Mum because DS2 has been referred for speech therapy too?

[AnnIonicIsoTronic]

DS1 I self-referred to SALT. He was a slow starter, hesitant talker, obvious problems with sounds.

But DS2 is my talking child. I honestly haven't spotted a problem. Teacher suggested he is referred for his lisp (mispronounced 's' sounds) - which is a fair point - but I thought it was developmentally normal for a just 4 year old.

Feeling culpable now. Remembering all the times I said 'go play by yourself, DS2' - where maybe I should have been down there on the floor with him playing with his cars.

sigh

1 is bad luck & 2 is a pattern?

I can't see how a lisp would imply anything about your parenting at all. Ed Milliband still has a lisp and he also went to Oxford and LSE, so must be pretty bright.

Please don't blame yourself - it's just one of those things - not a pattern at all.

A lisp clearly isn't catastrophic, but a little ST might help the child gain confidence?

dd had speech therapy for about 18 months aged 3/4 - her speech was very muffled and slow to develop - she's now 6 and no one can tell there was ever an issue.

OP, I have four children. Three had speech therapy. Of those, two had a 'severe speech delay'. I was not to blame. You are not to blame.

And a lisp sounds 'age appropriate' for a just turned 4 year old to me. Being referred for SALT doesn't necessarily mean your child needs speech therapy.

DD1 won't shut up, DS is also showing signs of the same trait.

Middle DC, DD2 has speech delay at 3.5 she has less than 40 words and none able to communicate to others, family understand her but everyone else hears none.

DD2 is the one I spent most time with, talked to constantly to and played with most of all.

I don't think input always equals output.

It just feels like its a problem I could have prevented if I'd done things differently.

jeee - I also have 4 dc. DS1 SLT suggested that a noisy & boisterous household might push DS1 to gabble to get his voice heard. I feel guilty because I contrast my brand of 'crowd parenting', with the PFB approach I see some other people do, which involves much more direct adult attention.

In fact, my own speech is (apparently) fast and not always easy to follow - me and DH were both in speech therapy as children. Plus I'm raising them bilingual.

It's like a perfect storm of speech delay factors!

I have a lisp...is that ALL she wants looking at? My DDs little friend used to be unable to say L at the same age....and now he is 8 it's fine! He had no help. He would say "Wook at this Woowy" instead of Look at this woolly....it was qite pronounced...but totally resolved.

It's not your fault! It's just the (bad) luck of the draw.

I did everything 'wrong' with my DC's, always forward facing pushchairs, working single parent, partly raised by cbeebies, 5yo is a constant thumb sucker and they can still both talk the hind legs off a horse.

He is probably starting phonics at school, and my guess isthe teacher wants to make reading as easy and stress free as possible for him. My son has a problem with his s and sh sounds and when he started school he would sit for five mins a day with his lovely TA who would practise these sounds in a very informal way.i imagine it will be the same for your ds x

I think YABU as you are in no way to blame however i can completely understand how you feel - DD aged 2.4 is now under SALT for speech delay and the pitying looks and the comments i get at toddler groups make me feel like a crap mum with no parenting skills and that somehow my child is lacking in some way and its ALL MY FAULT. how awful it is for me to have a child thats not perfect. If i hadnt already had a DS who was speaking in fluent sentences at just over a year old and has not shut up since i would probably take their idioticcoments a lot more seriously.

OP, I'm a speech and language therapist. First of all, it's not your fault at all. Second of all, if by 'lisp', you mean that he says 'th' instead of 's' (like saying 'thun' instead of 'sun'), then teacher is being a bit over-cautious. This kind of pattern can happen up to age 7. Just copy the word back to him in the way that you would say it, so he can hear the difference. Dont' draw any more attention to it and never ask him to copy words or sounds after you.

I wish all the parents I work with were as engaged and enthusiastic as you are

I thought that Lotte! I'm not a therapist but have seen this resolve itself...as you said before or around the age of 7.

Dd2 was a big talker. She was speaking sentences from before 18 months. Had about 500 word then too (was doing some research into language development so I wrote down each new word, so I knew exactly).

When ds was born, she was 3.6yo and I mentioned to the HV that she was not pronunciating some sounds right, and she ended up with speech therepy-only 2-3 times, but it really helped.

Interestingly she was much clearer with her pronunciation at 18months than dd1 was. However dd1's pronunciation improved by 2yo, whereas dd2's pronunciation didn't improve from the first time she said it. Perhaps because people could understand her, she didn't have the motivation to improve the pronunciation.

Nope. Not to blame.

Although, I'm aware that people just saying that isn't going to help you if you can identify things that you think might be responsible.

Do you know what? Even if there are 'environmental factors' that have contributed to it. It STILL wouldn't be your 'fault'.

We are all surrounded by a million and one environmental factors that might impact on one person and not on another. Given that we don't exist in a vacuum, it would be pretty much impossible to remove any trace of their influence.

But it's NOT YOUR FAULT!

Have you got that?!

AnnIonicIsoTronic, it's interesting that you say that you and your DH had speech therapy when you were young. I had speech therapy, as did a large number of my extended family. I think genetics can be an important element in speech delay.

Oooo, my DS (3.11) has a lisp, should I take him to GP? I just assumed he would have a lisp
He has a very extensive vocabulary and has no problem talking, he just has a lisp!

Honestly? Sounds like a very switched on teacher who thinks a couple of SALT sessions will solve a very minor problem which is being 'pointed up' because they're working on phonics atm. Not the same thing as a speech delay AT ALL. Think of it as speech physio.

Oh yeah

AND ITS NOT YOUR FAULT

Capiche?

OP, the SLT department may not even accept the referral - I don't think mine would accept a referral for a 4 year old who says 's' as 'th' because it's not a problem

Either way, please try not to worry

YABU.

I am a PFB and had a lisp as a child. Had years of speech therapy and ended up doing lots of speech & drama exams and competitions. As an adult I have lived in several different countries and receive lots of compliments on my clear speech (nice little stealth boast there!). Funnily enough I still have a slight lisp but it is barely detectable. The years and years of speech lessons have given me a lot of confidence, good knowledge of phonetics and a huge repertoire of poems to recite off by heart after a few too many drinks.

As an aside, my MIL talks incredibly fast (and has a strong regional accent) and all 3 of her sons learned to talk standard Dutch - their native language - without problems or delays.

It's hard not to feel responsible for every little 'problem' our kids have but just like you can't take credit for all their skills, you can't be blamed for all their less-skilled areas either.

My daughter (5.5) has a lisp. I think round here if it is not gone by 5 they will see them. Someone is seeing my dd at school tomorrow.

Thanks guys.

lottie thats interesting. I've been paying more attention this evening: sun is sun but sky is thky. The Rs and to a lesser extent the Ls have a tinge of W about them... I guess the salt will pick things out more accurately.

Phonics was actually a bit of a turning point for DS1. As he learnt to read, he became a lot surer about what soundshewas aiming for, and in turn the sounds were delivered more accurately.

Neither of your dc's speech problems are down to you. Most of us do not spend time illterating every word and purposely developing their pronunciation and vocabulary. We tell them to go and play with their cars. Yes we have moments of chatting and playing, but we also need time to wash up, hoover, blank out.

An acquaintance of mine was told her son's speech problems were due to her not feeding him lumps at the appropriate time. As a nurse, she fed him lumps at the appropriate time. She is also an incredibly articulate, educated person.

Just ignore the twatish comments and get what treatment he needs. I would think that unless you merely grunt at your dc, it's genetics.

As I understand it there is some link between how much you talk directly to your children and how quickly they learn to talk as a toddler, but not a link to pronunciation/articulation. That has certainly been my experience, my two children have been similar with number of words at whatever age but PFB had/has some articulation problems and NSC speaks much more clearly. I'm sure this is just genetics/chance etc and I'm sure yours is too.

I'm a SENCO and I wouldn't refer a 4 year old simply for what sound like immature speech sounds. I'd guess ds will be assessed and discharged with some general advice on modelling speech.

I also lisp/ slur a little when tired or rushed and manage whole school assemblies just fine, although there have been a few funny slips...

Can I please hijack and ask a question about my DD who is 4?! She can't say Rs (she says Ws instead) but other than that speaks very well, chatters away and pronounces all other letters fine.
Should I be taking her to a speech therapist? I keep thinking she's pronouncing like this because she's still young and it'll improve by itself. Thanks