Need advice quickly so posting in Aibu. Bullying problem in pre school...

[Badvoc]

Sooooo....
I finally know why my ds2 is so distressed about pre school all of a sudden
He is being bullied
I just fucking knew it.
A child does not go from happily running in every morning to clinging and begging me not to leave him for no reason!
At night time he is crying he doesn't want to go :(
I had a word with pre school last week and they said no problems.
So I accepted this.
Then today I took him to a messy play session for kids and mums run by the pre school in the afternoon...oh my god
One child who hasn't been there too long (conincidentally after he started was when Toby began to be upset) was simply vile to him and his mother just sat there.
I am so upset and angry and dh is away and I don't know what to do.
I can't go through this again. Ds1 was badly bullied from nursery right though to year 2 by the same child and school always played it down. This has had serious effects in ds1. At age 6 he was showing symptoms of clinical depression. (I took him out btw and he is now happy at a new school)
This child took every toy Ds2 had, snatched, pinched and crushed his hand.
ds2 shares well and gave the child the toys without complaint but it broke my heart. Ds2 went outside to get away from him and he followed and again snatched all the toys ds2 was playing with.
The child ended the session by having a screaming fit and throwing a brush across the playground. His mother then stepped in. Oh, and she is a teacher apparently (this is relevant bear with me!)
After the session I spoke to the manager and said "well, now we know what the problem is!" She said this child had never behaved like that before and that his mother works full time so it was perhaps because she was there?
Was that a dig at me because I am a sahm? Whatever, it's a pretty feeble excuse IMO.
I am so angry with the pre school...there are only 8 kids to 2 key workers most mornings so there is no excuse for missing this.
Aibu in keeping him off tomorrow. -this child goes on a Friday ?
Do I send a letter?
Phone the manager?
I don't know what to do or even whether to tell dh as he is working away....
Feel very alone and sick with worry.

Bullying is a terrible thing to go through so don't diminish it's affect. I used that term because you describe the previous incident, what the people laughed like etc it just seems it's still with you? I was bullied at school and a lot of things I had internalised and then I had a course of cbt and see things so much differently. It gave me perspective and a calmness to deal with issues in a more rational way without my experience helping to make my decisions. Hope you don't think I was being overly dramatic with the PTSD! I hope you get something sorted soon!

OP, YANBU. It's horrible to see your child being treated like that. And obviously something similar had been going on for a long time, which is why he's been so upset.

The manager said "this child had never behaved like that before." Chances are she's lying to cover her back.

People saying "this isn't bullying" are being ridiculous. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck. It doesn't really matter whether you think three year old boys are capable of being bullies or not - the effect on the child of the receiving end is what matters, and for them it feels like being bullied.

If someone treated you like this in the workplace, would it be bullying? Yes it fucking would. Why three year olds are supposed to be more robust than adults I have no idea.

Not read the whole thread, but don't keep your son off. Say to the nursery that you would like them to keep an eye on him today to see if the other child picks on him again as you are concerned that this may have stopped his enjoyment of nursery.

Just read hackmum response and I totally agree with her. Thankfully none of the nurseries/schools i have sent mine too have been of the opinion that hitting, snatching,picking on is "just what kids do" and that the victim will just have to put up with it. Why should small children who are unable to defend themselves put up with behaviour that we would never put up with in the workplace?

Although I agree that "bully" is a harsh term for a toddler, it is true that toddlers can sometimes behave in an aggressive fashion. Sometimes the behaviour just hasn't been corrected at home and some cases reflect domestic violence or stress in the home environment. It's good that you brought it to the school's attention for his sake as well as your son's. I would keep him off when the other boy is there until you can go and observe--that way you can see for yourself whether it is a one-off.

I am a but confused...perhaps you can help?
When does "naughtiness" become "bullying"?
What age? Where is the cut off?
Ds2 has not gone in this morning as he has a head cold and cough and I needed to speak with the manager.
Have told her I am not happy and very disappointed in her reactions ( and my own) yesterday. I said I feel ds2s sudden reluctance is due to this child's behaviour.
She apologised.
This child actually goes in mon, weds and fri so if I only send ds2 in the days he isn't there ds2 will be down to 2 days per week which doesn't seem fair to me...
I have rung the other pre school and am waiting for a call back.
I don't want to take him out, but I am not sure I trust them now :(
What a shitty situation.
Apparently the mother told the manager that he is angry at home too.
He seems a very angry little boy :(
He kept saying
"I am a good boy"
Sigh.

I have said I will think about it over the weekend.
Not sure what to do now..whether to send him in next week as normal and for the pre school to closely observe them?
Wish dh was here :(

I have serious reservations about your child's nursery - not because of a pre-schooler's pushing. But because they don't seem to understand the need for confidentiality. There is no way that they should have been discussing what the mother has said about her boy's behaviour at home. And they shouldn't have told you what days he goes in. Or indeed anything about him.

I did ponder that actually afterwards jeee.....
I guess I could simply have asked his CM what days he did.
Hs mother said it to the whole room so I guess she feels it isn't confidential?

I am sooooo upset to read about this, and you must be very upset

I think its so easy to say "kids this age dont bully" , but I think even at young age children learn bad behaviour

a little lad 3 doors down used to be fine, but since his mum had a baby he has been a little sxxt (he hit my baby yesterday so I am a tad annoyed)

Look, here is the issue

they have a duty to care, protect and make your DS feel comfortable

they are clearly failing

and yes you are reacting badly cos of DS1, but I dont blame you

Babies of this age cannot communicate that well, so you have to listen to your instincts here

YANBU XXXX

and what HACKMUM said, 100 times!

Thank you x
Is your baby ok?
Thing is, I can't be angry at the child.
It's poor parenting IMHO.
If he is playing up at home they need to address it, not just hope it gets better!l
He is the only child I know this age who acts like this.

I would attend in the background at the nursery, observe yourself what this child is like and if he is still behaving badly in your opinion, talk to the people in charge.

Ask them for an objective opinion of the other child and if they think you are reading too much into it.

Shelby has a very good point about leading his answers as well - I could probably get my 2.8 yr old DS to say he'd eaten a cat for tea, with a bit of persuasion.

It's really tough to say when naughtiness becomes bullying. When your own child is the one being persistently thumped, it's especially hard to look at the perspective of the child who is doing the thumping. But it's all about what the "aggressor" is trying to achieve.

Bullying involves a conscious effort to intimidate or distress another person. It's a quite complex thought process that involves identifying a target, being able to imagine what will upset them, and carrying out the action. Most toddlers thought processes just aren't that sophisticated.

Most toddler aggression comes from poor impulse control. They see something they want, so they grab it. Someone else is doing something fun, so they want to do it. If someone is in their way, then they'll smack or push them away. Other people's thoughts or feelings don't really come into it.

Based on what the manager said about him being "angry" at home, perhaps he really was acting out to gain his mother's attention. If you were there and engaged in positive play with your son, it would also explain why he was gravitating toward you and your son--he wanted that same kind of positive interaction and couldn't work out how to get it.

I may do that on Monday Eugene.
It's not lie, this child is really young..he is in,y 4 months under than ds2.
There were much younger children there and they were well behaved.
A little 2 year old came p to me and said
"Do you mind if I have those?" Wrt 2 toy cars.
I dont think that this has much to do with age tbh...

Fuzzy...yes. Of course.
But it's still not right my boy be treated like that is it?
I don't want to demonise a small child but I not sure what I can do?
I am supposed to be helping in a pre school walk next weds...this child will be there.
Perhaps I could spend some time with him then? Would that make it worse?
If he is jealous of ds2 and me then it could be a disaster couldn't it?
Oh Ffs....

Sorry for all
The typos, fecking auto correct!

I think its poor parenting

but the end results is this:

he is being mean and upsetting another child and noone is adressing it, not pre-school and not his Mum

you are not demonising hi, but at the same time you can handle his behaviour!

and your DS is paying the price, it appears

yesterday I went to a parents and evening and what the Head teacher said made my eyes well up, she was talking aboit teaching them self esteem, and said that have a ZERO tolerance to bullying

anyway, as you know I think yanbu!

my DS in fine, but have just taken him out of a pre-school as he was not happy there. once he feel asleep (he never sleeps in day) then this week he puked. why bother? some places are good, some are less so xx

and badvoc

I mean this kindly, but after what happended to your elder boy, you are overthinking this. I dont blame you, but you are !!! xxxxx

I know I know.....:)

wel hope you feel better now !