Need advice quickly so posting in Aibu. Bullying problem in pre school...

[Badvoc]

Sooooo....
I finally know why my ds2 is so distressed about pre school all of a sudden
He is being bullied
I just fucking knew it.
A child does not go from happily running in every morning to clinging and begging me not to leave him for no reason!
At night time he is crying he doesn't want to go :(
I had a word with pre school last week and they said no problems.
So I accepted this.
Then today I took him to a messy play session for kids and mums run by the pre school in the afternoon...oh my god
One child who hasn't been there too long (conincidentally after he started was when Toby began to be upset) was simply vile to him and his mother just sat there.
I am so upset and angry and dh is away and I don't know what to do.
I can't go through this again. Ds1 was badly bullied from nursery right though to year 2 by the same child and school always played it down. This has had serious effects in ds1. At age 6 he was showing symptoms of clinical depression. (I took him out btw and he is now happy at a new school)
This child took every toy Ds2 had, snatched, pinched and crushed his hand.
ds2 shares well and gave the child the toys without complaint but it broke my heart. Ds2 went outside to get away from him and he followed and again snatched all the toys ds2 was playing with.
The child ended the session by having a screaming fit and throwing a brush across the playground. His mother then stepped in. Oh, and she is a teacher apparently (this is relevant bear with me!)
After the session I spoke to the manager and said "well, now we know what the problem is!" She said this child had never behaved like that before and that his mother works full time so it was perhaps because she was there?
Was that a dig at me because I am a sahm? Whatever, it's a pretty feeble excuse IMO.
I am so angry with the pre school...there are only 8 kids to 2 key workers most mornings so there is no excuse for missing this.
Aibu in keeping him off tomorrow. -this child goes on a Friday ?
Do I send a letter?
Phone the manager?
I don't know what to do or even whether to tell dh as he is working away....
Feel very alone and sick with worry.

Molly.
Thank you.
I took my older son out of a bad school and home schooled him for a year. Is that enough action for you? :) I also took him to karate lessons for 18 months to in order to give him more confidence....
But I left it too long. And despite knowing that he was very unhappy kept believing the teachers.
I won't do that again.
I had it happening in front of my eyes today and so I know exactly what happened and its really depressing me.
I won't tell dh. No point. He can't do anything, but he will be angry too.

Talk to school. Explain that you have noticed there has been tension between your son and the other child, and that your son has been unusually reluctant to go in to preschool.
FWIW my DD had issues with a child in pre school, he was calling her names and trying to get others to join in and say nasty things. I turned up early with her one day (she did just afternoons at the time) and the boy started shouting things across the play ground at DD. So I spoke to the class assistant who was there and he said he would look in to it.
I also spoke to the teacher, and she said she would watch them.

After that the boy never spoke to DD like that again, and they get on quite well now 2 years on.
So it is worth mentioning the issues to the teaching staff, and keep mentioning it till they sort it.

I know this is not what you want to hear but I think you're overreacting.

There are always a few at pre-school, reception and even into year 1 who snatch, push, hit.

Lots of pre-schoolers start off enthusastic and have phases of going cold on going to pre-school. It's exciting at first, then the novelty wears off a bit. Totally normal reaction.

You've seen what, a couple of hours of play, where the issues you saw the staff say they haven't seen before.

You really need to take a step back. You are putting two and two together and making six.

The best thing you can do is teach your ds how to deal with situations like these. I really don't think you have enough evidence to suggest that he's being bullied, neither do I think a pre-school child has the mental capacity to mount a sustained bullying campaign.

If you go in all guns blazing over this, I think you might be viewed from thereinafter as a bit unhinged.

Ok, he is being bullied. Remove him from pre-school and find another. Keep doing this each time a toddler snatches something off him.

Sighs....

I am not going in all guns blazing?
I am upset and not sure what to do!
Ha! If I had expected only opinions I wanted to hear I wouldn't have posted this in Aibu.
Thank you all for replying...it is helping.
I knew that something had happen does at pre school, I just didn't know what. He was so happy when he went back after summer...ran in without so much as a goodbye.
Then this child starts and he becomes very distressed.
I really don't believe it's a coincidence, and as some if you have pointed out, I have had a bad experience I the past with schools downright lying to me wrt these issues...

Pancake...really?
You think that's all this was?
It was 2 hours of a child singling out my son for awful treatment.
At one point he screamed in my sons face "dont look at me!"
My son wasn't looking at him.
I am not a fool, despite how my op may make me sound.
I am a mum very worried about her child who is distressed suddenly and seemingly without reason.
I am sorry if that frustrates you...

It is upsetting when a child is mean to yours, but this is what happens with 2, 3, 4 year olds as they are still learning how to interact with each other.

Firstly, I would intervene on your child's behalf if this happens again at playgroups. You can also teach your child to say "No!" or "Stop!" loudly with both hands out in front of him.

Secondly, ask to meet with his keyworker and discuss your concerns that child X is being too rough with your DS. Ask for her ideas on how they can handle it in pre-school.

I would start with talking to the pre-school staff. List your concerns.

My DS1 had issues with 1 child at nursery and the nursery had to keep them apart for several weeks ( then let them be together again and watch what happened). So there are strategies they can take.

Well, 2 hours is a very long time for your son to endure that. Did you not feel able to say anythning to his mother in that 2 hours? Your OP says she did step in, but when? re the screaming in your son's face, you get down to the other boy's height and say firmly and calmly something like "We don't talk to other people like that, it's not a kind way to speak, is it? Please do not do that again." I am that your son was treatd like that for 2 hours.

Also, you can practise role playing at home with your DS - give him some phrases so that he's better equiped to deal with this kind of unpleasant, typical 3/4year old behaviour. And please don't let on to your DS that you think he's being bullied.

Am remembering other stuff too...at one point he had a massive tantrum because ds2 is taller and older than him?
I tried to make light of it and said "we'll if we are making ages up I will be 22!" But this kid seems to have a real problem with my son- or at least did today.
Have no idea why....

I am also a little puzzled that you allowed this to continue for 2 hours?

If my son was being upset by another child at a playgroup and nothing I/the mother did made a difference I would take him home.

I was only going on your opening post.

2 hrs and he was screaming in your son's face? And you put who with it? Why didn't you tell this other child to play nicely or go away and remove your child from this and not let the other child near you both?

Avon...I gave her a couple of stern looks but that's it...tbh it got to the stage that I couldn't even look at her as I was scared of what I might say!
:(
I don't think me having a go at another mother in the playground would be very helpful.
I tried talking to my older boys bully's mum once...that taught me a lesson I won't forget in a hurry!
:(
Some parents just dint see their kids behaviour as wring/bad/unacceptable...no matter what age they are or how may people tell them about it.
Sigh.

I do not mean this unkindly but it has a flicker of victim syndrome. How do you deal with uncomfy situations? I hate them but learnt I had to be assertive for my kids. ( not mean and bossy). They see this and hopefully will see it as an example for them on how to deal with situations.

There's loads of help out there to have if you feel it could help you.

Well, we were there for 2 hours, ds2 was not always near this boy but it was tricky as he kept following him from activity to activity...
I did intervene and take ds2 to other activities but as I say, this child just would not leave ds2 alone.
So bearing in mind it is felt I handled this badly, what do I do tomorrow morning?
ATM I would quite like to smack this woman in the face which would not be good obv.
I would also like to shout at the pre school manager which would also not be good.
Tips?

Ha! I am not a victim. I am normally quite strident but when it comes to my kids I know I do not always react in a non biased way so try and think before acting.
I thought this kids behaviour was dreadful but no one else seemed to raise an eyebrow....

What did you do about the other child when ever he snatched/bullied/pinched? Personally if i saw that a mum was failing to discipline her child, I would do it for her. I hope you stepped in and said 'No Toby is having a turn with this toy, you can have a turn when he has finished'. You can keep saying that over and over again. Also point out to the mum that her child is pinching ''excuse me your child keeps pinching my son. Will you tell him to stop'' Also agree that your child needs to learn to say stop and no firmly.

In your shoes I would leave our son at the session on Friday and then return after half an hour to observe him quietly without your son knowing. Tell the staff that you have come to try and work out why he dislikes nursery so much and that you need to see for yourself. I would particularly take an interest in the naughty boys interaction with your son.

Badvoc, you're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting you "have a go" at anybody I think this may be part of the problem - you're convinced your DS is being bullied and you're talking about me suggesting you "have a go" at the mother. Please try to calm down and think a bit more rationally, and you may not feel so upset. You can say somehting like "I just thought I should let you know that little Tommy has been snatching toys from my DS. I have spoken to him just to encourage him to share/play nicely, but I thought you'd probably want to know, as I would if it had been my DS." You say it all calmly and pleasantly not all guns blazing! IF she's a teacher, she may well think it's all part of 3/4 year olds finding their feet and some people are just naturally more hands off than others. But it's not a case of "do nothing" or "have a go at someone" - there's a lot you can do inbetween.

Blue - yes that sounds good but I cannot do it tomorrow, I have a day of appts from 9.30...:(
I was so cross by the end I couldn't even look at her.

After Fridays observation I would write and state that I was very disappointed that the staff at the messy play center let this boy pinch, shout in face,grab toys etc. I would also raise any other issues

look.. I'm sorry to be harsh, but you sound totally unhinged!
What's with all the hand wringing and sighing?
This is a totally different situation to the one your older son experienced... no two situations are the same, so stop making this into some great big drama before you know what is going on..
and get a grip... you don't sit there for 2 hours watching behaviour you don't like ... intervene or get someone else to.
You don't need your dh to help, go to pre school, report what you saw, and ask them to deal with it and let you know how things are going next week...
honestly, your life's going to be very stressful if you deal with every little incident like this!

I agree with you, the child's behaviour was appalling but I have to say that if my ds had been treated like that I would have stepped in and put a stop to it. I don't want to sound mean but your ds needs to see you taking steps to prevent him being hurt, not a couple of steely looks to a parent who is clearly ineffectual and unable/unwilling to control her child.
I agree with the others who said you need to go in tomorrow and speak to your ds' teacher. Don't go in all guns blazing, not yet anyway, but be polite and insist they listen to your concerns.

But you thought it was so bad that it was bullying, in that situation I would take control to make sure my kid wasn't at the brunt of it.

I would ask for a meeting with the preschool staff listing my concerns. But think I said that... There might be other reasons your child is not settled there. What does your son say? If you ask the right type of questions at the right time you might get more clues.

Avon...thing is I want to shout at her :(
Which is stupid and will achieve nothing.
Dh phones and I haven't told him.
I don't think we will be going to messy play again...
ATM this child only does 2 mornings....wtf do I do if he starts doing more??
Oh crappy crap.....