Need advice quickly so posting in Aibu. Bullying problem in pre school...

[Badvoc]

Sooooo....
I finally know why my ds2 is so distressed about pre school all of a sudden
He is being bullied
I just fucking knew it.
A child does not go from happily running in every morning to clinging and begging me not to leave him for no reason!
At night time he is crying he doesn't want to go :(
I had a word with pre school last week and they said no problems.
So I accepted this.
Then today I took him to a messy play session for kids and mums run by the pre school in the afternoon...oh my god
One child who hasn't been there too long (conincidentally after he started was when Toby began to be upset) was simply vile to him and his mother just sat there.
I am so upset and angry and dh is away and I don't know what to do.
I can't go through this again. Ds1 was badly bullied from nursery right though to year 2 by the same child and school always played it down. This has had serious effects in ds1. At age 6 he was showing symptoms of clinical depression. (I took him out btw and he is now happy at a new school)
This child took every toy Ds2 had, snatched, pinched and crushed his hand.
ds2 shares well and gave the child the toys without complaint but it broke my heart. Ds2 went outside to get away from him and he followed and again snatched all the toys ds2 was playing with.
The child ended the session by having a screaming fit and throwing a brush across the playground. His mother then stepped in. Oh, and she is a teacher apparently (this is relevant bear with me!)
After the session I spoke to the manager and said "well, now we know what the problem is!" She said this child had never behaved like that before and that his mother works full time so it was perhaps because she was there?
Was that a dig at me because I am a sahm? Whatever, it's a pretty feeble excuse IMO.
I am so angry with the pre school...there are only 8 kids to 2 key workers most mornings so there is no excuse for missing this.
Aibu in keeping him off tomorrow. -this child goes on a Friday ?
Do I send a letter?
Phone the manager?
I don't know what to do or even whether to tell dh as he is working away....
Feel very alone and sick with worry.

Thing is op, if it's not this boy it'll be a different one next week.

Just ask pre-school to keep an eye out as you were a bit worried.

Then practice with your dc, what do we do if someone tries to snatch a toy off you, hits you etc. We shout in a very loud voice "no! I don't like that" that is loud enough for the teacher to hear.

And if you go again to a session, don't be embarrassed about intervening. Just calmly take the toy back and say, no it's not nice to snatch and he's still playing with it. Don't hit him, he doesn't like it. All in a calm tone. For one thing, you need your son to learn that it's not acceptable. If you sit there waiting for someone else to intervene, you're giving him the message that it's ok for this boy to treat him like this.

Point I'm trying to make is you can't make the world perfect for your ds. There will always be badly behaved people. Teach him coping mechanisms.

I would really reiterate trying the role playing at home. Get your DS to practise saying "no" loudly without shouting. Other phrases like "I;m playing with that you can have it afterwards." "Snatching's not kind I'm going to tell the teacher." "Stop doing that." Help him find a clear, assertive voice. It's really useful, honestly

Can you do it early next week maybe? I think you do need to observe son without him knowing? It must be heart breaking for you and you little one.

bluesky said it so much better than me......

I thought this kids behaviour was dreadful but no one else seemed to raise an eyebrow....

They are not seeing it, all you need do is to point it out, to the mother included.

You are expecting her to be clairvoyant, remember that she knows nothing about your sons upset at attending nursery, or your own history.

Also 'making light' is going to go over the head of a four year old, they are very literal and need a firm instruction or correction.

The staff should be seeing what is happening, but your mishandling of the situation last week, hasn't helped.

thing is I want to shout at her

You need to work on getting over your past issues and work on communicating effectively and teaching your DS the same.

Avon...thing is I want to shout at her

I'm sure you do, but do that at home at a cushion/pillow, pretending it's her! Seriously, if you shout at her, you'll lose the moral high ground. I really think you're so upset about your older son's experience that you think the same is going to happen, which is not necessarily true at all. But equip your DS with tools to deal with the livelier more unpleasant kids that he'll come across.

Yes it is heartbreaking.
I feel very fragile about it actually :(
This boy only does 2 days so my next opportunity to watch them would be next Friday.
Have to go to ds1s high school open morning next Tuesday.
Will have a try with the role playing.
I have told him again and again to tell someone if he is upset/hurt but it seems to go in one ear and out the other...

Sorry, I know it sounds like I am not taking your posts on board, I am, it's very helpful.

Can you not swap days and avoid this child if you'd rather your child was out of his way?

Ds2 does 5 mornings.
And if this child ups his hours that's not going to help is it?
:(
God, I hate this.

How old is the other child op? 3?

I think you first need to establish why your son hates going. Chat to the staff. I know you think it's cos of this other kid but the staff said it was unusual behaviour for him.

And ask your son. Do those round the houses questions . "who do you like at nursery? I think soandso is funny, who makes you giggle? Blah blah until you get to who they don't like and why ( without putting words into their mouths). His viewpoint and the staffs observations should point to the problem.

4 in jan

Perhaps this child actually want to be friends with your ds but doesn't know how to? Does a three year old consistently follow another child around for 2 hours for any other reason than they want to be near them?

Whatever the reason, you need to feel reassured that ds will be protected from behaviour like this. Wait until you are calm before discussing with staff. Don't imply that you think they are not being honest. Stick to what you know to be true. You need to treat the two things seperately at this stage;

the behaviour you witnessed and

the fact that ds has appeared unhappy in general about going to nursery

Ask them what they normally do in these situations and what the strategies will be

Actually a lot of children do behave much worse when their dp is watching. I used to volunteer at a creche where parents did 1 session in turn. Nearly every week the parent would leave saying "my child is the worst behaved. Why didn't you tell me?" and we'd say "they don't usually behave like that."

Sometimes a small child can suddenly become upset at going to nursery/school. They can't always express why. Sometimes I don't think they know themselves. Sometimes it's such a small thing you wonder why on earth it has upset them. One friend's dc was inconsolable about going to preschool suddenly. After a lot of probing, found that they'd added a spiderman picture on the wall and was petrified of it.

It is worth chatting to the staff about why he's upset. But don't go in with the "it has to be bullying" attitude. The staff will be just as keen to have him happy, because it's much easier to look after happy children. You can ask them to keep a special eye on them if they're playing together, that is totally reasonable.

Well, just tried the role playing thing.
It was pretty much a disaster.
He became hysterical as ds1 and I tried to show him what to do and what to say.
What in earth can I do?
He isn't going in tomorrow...I can't stand the upset and worry, not tomorrow. Pre school will phone me and I will say...what?
I am unhappy with what I saw yesterday.
I think this child is the reason ds2 now dislikes pre school.
He says this child is mean to him at pre school.
Why hasn't this been noticed?
What will you do to keep my child safe from this treatment?

I think you are attributing far too much toa 3 year old OP.

I don't think he is bullying your DS (no matter how horrid it is to watch ) He is displaying normal (but naughty) toddler behaviour

I'm afraid you are projecting what happened to your DS1 onto DS2

I think you need to calm right down and go into the pre-school and explain calmly to his keyworker, how you feel.

Good luck!

Badvoc do you honestly think 7:30pm is a good time to do something like that with your DS - especially as you are clearly so wound up

Calm down woman!!

Well, better than 7 am tomorrow - or so I thought!
Ha!
Was wrong!
Kids dont know I am wound up...I have a pretty good poker face :)

I am not saying this in a sarcy way, but could this other child have some sort of subtle-ish SN/behaviour issues himself? I really doubt that the behaviour is a conscious decision to bully tbh. I do sympathise given your previous experiences with bullying that you are massively alert to/sensitive to history repeating itself, and I certainly agree it's concerning if pre-school are laissez faire about the other child upsetting yours, and it's worth keeping an eye on the situation further.

Badvoc, they know!

Keep him off tomorrow. Phone up and make an appointment to go and see them at a time when you can talk calmly.

Not sure how many times I can emphasis the word "calm"

I think you are making some HUGE assumptions.

.IME children adore preschool when they start then as the novelty wears off start being clingy and not wanting to go (usually for a bit of mum's attention) and then they are fine the minute the parent leaves.
Also try and bully proof your son a bit.teach him to stand up for himself and say no when someone tries to take his toy.

Lunatic.
Yes, I have had a pretty bad experience in the past.
I am also aware that schools dont always tell the truth. Truth is they dont always know how to deal with difficult kids.
Wrt sn I have no idea. I don't think so.
It is going to sound mad of me, but the child reminds me of my elder boys bully, and his mother reminds me of his mother...the same whiny, nasally voice "don't do that xxxxx" and then Turning back to someone and continuing to gossip.
Sigh.
Need to get a grip.