To consider moving over 3 hours away from soon to be ex DH with baby DD?

[tigerbear]

The situation is this (in short, or as short as I can make it!): I've recently split up with H (he doesn't want to break up) and the original plan was for him to stay in our marital home and for me to buy somewhere new within approx 10-15 min walk for ease of getting to nursery, schools in a few years, etc. The plan was to alternate the weeks each of us have baby DD (16 months), so we both have equal custody and she has 2 homes.

Up until now DD hasn't been in nursery (been looked after for past 6 months when I went back to work by both sets of grandparents who have all travelled from their homes hours away and stayed with us for a few days each week. Over the past 6 weeks she has also been looked after by a childminder).

The problems are:

• we live in a very expensive area of London where 2 bed flats are a minimum of £260k (very small, on edge of dodgy area) and I wouldn't be able to afford anywhere nice. The thought of DD growing up somewhere rubbish isn't a nice one
• For me to be able to afford anywhere, I will have to get a permanent job at least 4 days per week (my work for the past few years has been own business and freelance work) therefore DD will be in nursery 4 days per week, at least 10-11 hours per day.

We have a flat we can sell and can take equity out of our current home.

My family have suggested me moving back to them (NE England) for the following reasons:

• Decent home -could be mortgage free up there
• Family support and DD can be near grandparents and cousin
• I wouldn't need to work full-time (would only need to do 2 days per week if I remained freelance) so DD wouldn't have to be in nursery
• Better schools
• Better quality of life - clean air, near beach and countryside, less stress all round

I have proposed the idea to ex DH for us both to move (he would be able to buy somewhere out-right too, and wouldn't need to work so much) and he's completely opposed to it, saying his life is here. My family are saying he's selfish not to want a better life for DD.
He's saying I'm selfish for wanting to move away. My alternative plan is to move and bring DD back every week so she can have her week with him, and I would do one day per week of work in London. When she starts school, we'd have to reconsider things as would have to obviously live near each other.

AIBU to consider this move?

Whats wrong with looking for an easy life.....at the expense of your child and your co-parent?
Um, a lot?

Actually, this reminds me of someone I know whose ex moved a similar distance away (he's also in London) and it's a real strain on them both, having to meet up halfway or drive all the way there and back, when the wee man is only with his dad for a weekend. We all thought she was being unreasonable at the time she moved, although I'll admit to being biased as it's the bloke I know not her!

edam - because she is only considering herself. Not the needs of her DD, and certainly not her STBXH.

Perhaps there will be a drip feed that he has beaten her black and blue, although hopefully not if she is happy for her DD to spend a week at a time with him.

3 hours is a long way - especially once it is a trip that needs to happen twice in a weekend to facilitate contact once the DD is at school/preschool.

The child is 16 months old. By the time she starts school, her father may have changed jobs and moved elsewhere/remarried/or done 1001 other things that affect the pattern of contact/residence.

Sadly parents do split up and when they do they have to try to find a situation that works for their child and them for residence/contact. That doesn't mean either or both are stuck living in the same place for 16 years.

But the arrangement would only work for the next couple of years, what will happen when your DD starts school? At some point your DD will need a permanent area to live she cannot be shunted around from London to NE. Dh and I would love to move, but he had a DS from a previous relationship, so we wouldnt even consider it, once children are involved you have to do whats right for them.

If my DP planned to leave me, take DS and move to nearer his parents and either insist on me/DS doing 3 hours of travelling to see each other or me moving away from my job/home/family/friends to be near his family and friends, I would not think that reasonable at all.

Hi OP,

My relationship broke up at about the same stage you are at. So i have a bit of experience.

It might be worth thinking about your custody arrangements. A week on/week off set up is appealing in terms of it being "fair", but my understanding is that it's better for very small children to see both parents little and often. A week is a very long time for a baby not see her mum/dad.

XP and I have stayed living close by, despite the fact that we would both have preferred to move away for work reasons. Tbh, it's worked out very well. DD has an excellent relationship with both of us, we can both get to her school, and it's so handy for covering sick days etc.

You will looking at schools before you know it, and my advice is to put an arrangement in place that will work then too.

I also don't see how your arrangement would work with your XH's childcare. No nursery is going to agree to alternate weeks.

I hear what you are saying about FT nursery, but there are other options - a CM, or you both working 4 days a week.

Your XH obviously wants to make the arrangements work, so talk to him about your doubts about staying in London and see if you can make it work.

How is it not considering dd to look at ways the primary carer can spend more time with her rather than have her in nursery for 11 hours a day? (I've been a WOHM using a nursery, a homeworker, full-time, part-time and every other combination, no judgement of any particular set up intended). Honestly, I think the father's rights brigade have skewed the landscape here. How dare a Mother even contemplate moving! How dare" a woman leave her husband! How dare^ she look at ways to spend less time at work and more time looking after her baby!

FFS. The OP and her ex need to negotiate but there's nothing wrong with discussing the idea of moving and seeing if there's a way to make it work.

Normally I'd see your point, in fact, in some ways I can, if ex was agreeable, but the fact that your family are saying that he's being selfish for not wanting to uproot his whole life rings a hell of a lot of alarm bells. They should keep the hell out. How would you feel if his parents (understandably) slagged you off in this situation. Grow up, get your family the hell out of your and his business (actually, with that attitude, I'd not want them around the child much at all) and do the best thing by your child - don't take her away from her father.

Edam - yes, he might do any of those things. But then again he might not. I worry/worried about that with my XP as well, but I wanted to know that I had done everything I could to secure his relationship with DD. Even if he decides to move away now (DD is 4), they have had those early years together.

I do understand why you want to do it, OP. bit I don't think it would be entirely reasonable.

Perhaps the OP could move back to her parents and leave the DD with her father.

Woahhh Edam - the only person sounding 'shrill' on this thread is you. And I am the furthest thing possible from the 'fathers rights brigade' I moved my kids hundreds of miles away when I split form my Ex. BUT the OP has failed to give any sound reasons for disrupting her daughter and fathers relationship - apart from wanting to be mortgage free and not having to go to work much

'I do understand why you want to do it, OP. bit I don't think it would be entirely reasonable,' - sensible response.

'extremely selfish' '[you] dump[ed] your husband' 'I were your DH I would go for overall custody rather than let anyone take my child 3hrs away from me with such flimsy reasons' - shrill and over the top.

Perhaps the OP could move back to her parents and leave the DD with her father.

That should be an option on the table too I agree.

You don't have to be in the NW to be mortgage free and live in the countryside. Plenty of places around London where you can do this.

I have two male friends who, when they split up with their partners, had the mother move 3 hours plus journey away, with small children.

Every situation is different, but I would say this -

It made the fathers deeply, deeply unhappy and frustrated. It really changed the balance of the post break up relationship - it seemed to 'up the stakes? and everything to do with the children became more hostile, formal and legalistic.

it changes the nature of the father's relationship to their child. A father in the same town as his kids can do so many things (nursery and school drop offs, attend school events like plays and parents' evenings, go to football matches and swimming galas etc) - even when it is not 'their week' with the children.

Visits become a much bigger deal when the kids have to travel a long way away - visits seem to be more vulnerable to change, which is very disruptive. Say a DC looks like they are coming down with something, and don't travel on their appointed day. But within 48 hours it seems they are ok. They might miss out on a whole week's visit because of that - whereas when the other parent is forty minutes away, they don't have to book a day off work to come and get them, they can just collect them another evening.

When the kids are school age and a social life with their peers is getting important, it is a wrench taking them 'out of circulation' and making them go to another town to see their other parent.

I appreciate you are saying 'when DD starts school we would have to reconsider things' so that both parents could live near each other. But realistically, what does that mean? You won't move back to London, or anywhere, if you have a good life and are near lots of family for support. Which puts your partner over a barrel.

One of these dad friends, who jumped through every hoop going to keep contact with his kids, once drove 5 hours up to Northumberland to see his DD in her school nativity play. she was delighted to see him - they managed a half hour excited daddy time (the mother knew he was coming, it wasn't a surprise) - then dad drove the 5 hours home again. He was crying for most of the journey. I hope I never split up with my DP (who does) but that story has stayed with me.

I would urge you to look at the bigger picture, whatever you do.

Good post, wheresmespecs. I think that everyday nature of parent-child relationships is very precious, and the reason why most mothers would not consider living far away from their children.

I find my XP frustrating at times, but at the end of the day I chose to have a child with him. And he with me. So it is up to us to make the situation work for DD.

My mother moved over 3,000 miles away - in the days before cheap air travel.
Too many details will out me
but I've never thought that it was a bad decision.
Being that far from other parts of my family was hard, but not my Dad.

OP, I think you're in a very hard position. I totally understand why you want to move up north and if I found myself in the same position as you I'd be thinking about moving south to be with my family.

I think the main problem if you move north would be how your ex will see your child, i.e 50/50 custody isn't going to be possible due to nurseries and later on schools unless you both live fairly close to one another. The next best thing would be weekend access for your ex, however you'd have to discuss how to make it work e.g take turns doing the journey to drop off your child. Making such a long journey once a week would become tiring IMO. Also with weekly access you wouldn't get to do things at the weekend with your child which you might end up resenting, so would fortnightly be best?

Has your ex suggested any alternatives?

There's gong to have to be a compromise somewhere along the lines and unfortunately I think someone is going to end up missing out.

I hope things work out.

If you did this you would change the course of your child's entire relationship with her Father.

You say you would come back, but what about if you ever have another baby? Would you stop doing it and expect him to do more because you are pregnant or have another child to consider. Is it fair to make your dd do such a long and tiring journey so frequently?

I think you are being incredibly selfish, and your family are just as bad. How dare they think that being near them will be better for your dd than being near her Father? So what if you would have a bigger house up there, it means nothing!

I'm getting angry just thinking about it, so ill leave it there. Parents like you boil my piss.

To be purely practical about it, it's really not feasible to travel that far with a child every week. Three hours on a train with a toddler can be pretty testing, and just not fair on the child. And have you looked at the price of train tickets?

I would question whether an alternate week arrangement is the most suitable set-up for such a young child. It's not unknown, but it's a bit unusual - not seeing a parent for a whole week is a lot at that age.

It might be worth considering mediation with your ex to see if you can generate other solutions. Is there a third way, a location that would work for both of you?

Cherry blossom - I don't think it would be fair on the dad to only see his daughter every other weekend, do you?

OutragedAtThePrice is harsh, but makes a good point about what would happen if you went on to have more children.

Those who do not know the facts should not aim such vitriol.

In my case, two days per year of supervised access was MORE than enough.
For Dad, for Mum and for me.
And for their new partners and my half siblings on both sides.

There are always MANY sides to situations - best decided by professional divorce mediators in possession of the full facts

There may be many sides to a situation, but there is only one that matters, and that is the child's. No child would choose to be separated from a good and loving parent without a good reason, and having mortgage free parents doesn't really count as a good reason.

Teatimesthree - no I don't think it's fair, but then it's not up to us is it? It's up to the OP and her ex to discuss various options and find what works best for them.

If the OP definitely wanted to move away then she and her ex need to consider the implications of a six hour round journey on say a Saturday to drop off the child and the same again on a Sunday - I'm not sure if that would be sustainable as surely it would be exhausting? This is my opinion, but other people might not find a six hour round trip exhausting.