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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

763 replies

PierreBourdieu · 23/09/2012 11:01

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

OP posts:
Mrsjay · 23/09/2012 12:46

of using ours for tourism purpose

ours do you mean Englands Confused scotland does fine for tourism without mentioning the queen go into any Scottish tourist board and there is no mention of the queen or Royals on any of the leaflets. Head of state is just that scotland would be part of the commonwealth like Australia and New Zealand etc etc and they have their own national anthems

OptimisticPessimist · 23/09/2012 12:47

As I understood it, the issue with the National Anthem was that it is often used interchangeably as the anthem for England and the UK, as if they are the same thing. England should really decide on a song to be used when they compete/appear as England, leaving God Save The Queen for UK use.

Independence would give Scotland responsibility for defence, devo max wouldn't. Isn't the Queen head of state in other countries too? Australia and Canada spring to mind, but I could be wrong.

geegee888 · 23/09/2012 12:49

I will move away. I think it would end up being a rather corrupt high tax champagne socialist country where you don't get on in life unless your you, or your uncle, are in 'the party'. A bit like Latvia or Lithuania or somewhere.

Its already a bit like that here, what with the trams and communal repairs fiasco. and listening to all the xenophobic 'were special because were scottish' crap in the media, and the endless '10 greatest Scots actors/inventors/cartoon characters' drives me slightly mad.

What people forget is that Scotland is not a Scandinavian country full of calm people. Its primarily a Celtic country, and tribal and clannish by nature.

Mrsjay · 23/09/2012 12:50

Isn't the unofficial English anthem Jerusalem ? or land of hope and glory

Narked · 23/09/2012 12:52

I'm English and totally in favour. I'm sick of the moaning and the current situation where the SNP collude with the Tories on Westminster votes over issues that don't touch Scotland. Goodbye and good riddance.

OptimisticPessimist · 23/09/2012 12:53

According to Wiki it depends on the sport:

"England generally use "God Save the Queen", but "Jerusalem", "Rule, Britannia!" and "Land of Hope and Glory" have also been used.
At international test cricket matches, England have, since 2004, used "Jerusalem" as the anthem.
At international rugby league matches, England use "God Save the Queen" and also "Jerusalem".
At international rugby union and football matches, England use "God Save the Queen".
At the Commonwealth Games, Team England use "Jerusalem" as their victory anthem."

It also says that NI generally use GSTQ, but use Londonderry Air at the Commonwealth Games.

Fuchzia · 23/09/2012 12:56

Emotive nationalism has its place but I (english in England) think we would all be poorer if the union split, plus we could kiss goodbye to anything other than a Tory govt in Westminster ever again which depresses me. I think that it's basically another way of dividing and ruling the 99% and that we are stronger if we stand together (channels Marx).

hugoagogo · 23/09/2012 12:57

I would be against, devolution. DH is scottish and I have scottish great grandparents too.

My main reason to be against it is that without Scotland the Tories would always have a clear majority.

Scotland (and Wales too) provide some much needed balance to the UK, without them we really would be a jumped up principality with ideas above our station.

peanutMD · 23/09/2012 12:58

Nice to know us Scots are valued people that can just be binned off Narked, thanks fir that!

StatisticallyChallenged · 23/09/2012 12:58

Scottish, living in Scotland: Hell no,will be voting against

KatieScarlett2833 · 23/09/2012 12:59

Yes hug , but in return we get a Tory government too despite the scarcity of Tory MP's here.

azazello · 23/09/2012 13:00

I think it would be a shame if Scotland went independent and England ended up stuck with a conservative govt for ever. Otherwise, It is a decision for the Scots.

Fuchzia · 23/09/2012 13:00

Nooo we value you Peanut! don't leave us!

hugoagogo · 23/09/2012 13:00

I know Katie- sorry about that.

peanutMD · 23/09/2012 13:01

I don't plan on it Fuchzia :o

KatieScarlett2833 · 23/09/2012 13:01

S'not your fault hug Grin

Salmotrutta · 23/09/2012 13:03

These threads always end up depressing me.

Things like "good riddance" etc. - well, cheers for that.
Can we have our troops back from the trouble spots then please? Sad

Narked · 23/09/2012 13:04

Yes. You 'Scottish'. So be Scottish. If you want self determination then have it. Don't take the benefits of it (no prescription charges, tuition fees etc) whllst clinging on to Westminster for funding.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 13:05

I'm Scottish and I fully support independence.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread. If you are eligible to vote please, please, please go out there and educate yourselves properly about both sides before making your mind up.

This referendum is a massive thing and we owe it to ourselves to get it right.

Be brave, yes Scotland is already a lot better off than England, but that doesn't mean we should maintain the status quo.

And please remember, you are not voting for Alex Salmond to rule in perpetuity, you are voting for independence. Once we get that you can vote for whatever party you want.

And finally, because she can say it so much better than I can, the words of Ruth Wishart

Today?s march and rally for independence is also about our great sense of community, writes Ruth Wishart

It?s a short walk from the Meadows to Princes Street gardens in Edinburgh today, but for some of us it will have been preceded by a rather long journey.

It?s always been my contention that journalists, particularly those given the privilege of commenting on current events, should stay well clear of politics in any formal context.

We are there to listen, question, report, and analyse. Observers of the process; not participants.

And I?ve pretty well been true to that self-denying ordinance outside of a brief detour into the short lived Scottish Labour Party which flowered briefly before being strangled by extremist infiltration.

In any event, for most of my trade, party politics are lacking in allure.

We assorted Bolsheviks and part-time anarchists are not temperamentally inclined to toe particular policy lines, and certainly incapable of keeping our contrary opinions to ourselves.

And it?s in the nature of the job to make friends and contacts across the political divides in Scotland.

I was proud to recount my friendship with Donald Dewar at his funeral, and enjoy cordial relations with folks like Annabel Goldie and Menzies Campbell.

Political Scotland is a village and the villagers collide socially at regular intervals.

Yet today, I find myself on a platform supporting the rally for a Yes vote in the 2014 referendum, and speaking up in favour of Scottish independence.

In a sense, the decision to do so was predicated partly on the tortured history of referendums in Scotland.

As we all know, the 1979 one was rigged in such a way that all non-voters were effectively deemed ?no? voters, while the actual majority yes vote was
not considered sufficiently loud.

Strangely, few of the proponents of first-past-the-post saw any anomaly.

The horse trading over the shape and content of the 2014 model has been well rehearsed on these pages.

If I?m being totally honest, my own instinct has been that devolution is a process, and, as the polls consistently tell us, a small ?c? conservative country like Scotland generates considerable support for some form of maximum devolution.

The No camp would have us believe that its hostility to anything other than a single question is nothing more than a high-minded commitment to achieving clarity.

That, of course, is no more than self-serving rubbish. They?ve done their sums and calculated that two-thirds of the population either want full independence or devo max, and, just like 1979, they want no truck with a formula which might come up with the ?wrong? answer.

Nevertheless, I will vote Yes, and I will do so from conviction. From the belief that Scotland, like many similar small nations, has the natural resources to survive and thrive.

From the belief that taking control of our own finances and budgeting is not only the essential building block of a modern nation, but that it will finally kill off the persistent charges of whingeing jocks and subsidy junkies which cause unnecessary tensions between ourselves and our friends in the south.

And, as the No camp never tires of re-iterating, the English are our closest friends. And that friendship has rather more hope of blossoming into a mature relationship when we break bread as neighbours rather than intermittently warring relations.

Independence will also lay to rest the West Lothian question. English voters who rail at Scottish MP?s voting through Westminster measures which don?t apply to their own constituents have every right to be outraged.

However, the over-riding reason why I will come out loud and proud today is because I truly believe this to be a historic opportunity to shape the kind of nation we want our children and grandchildren to inherit and grow up in.

It is, of course, utterly facile to pretend that Scots and English are homogenous peoples to which collective national characteristics can be casually attached. We are both mongrel nations and all the healthier for it.

A Scot is someone born here, and anyone who has paid us the compliment of settling here.

Nevertheless, devolution has increasingly underlined the different directions of travel which our two nations choose to take.

The de facto privatisation of the English health system, the wilful fragmentation of their education sector, and, most damaging of all, the imposition of appalling tax and benefit ?reforms? which will hit the most vulnerable while protecting the wealthy are all anathema to a large majority of Scots of all political persuasions.

Yet, without independence, we have little or no means of alleviating the pain and havoc these reforms will bring in their wake.

Then there is the continuing running sore of housing the UK?s nuclear weaponry and the means of its delivery.

For me, the immorality of that system is matched only by its contemporary irrelevance to what threatens moderns states.

And, while we have a coalition government in the south shredding its supposedly green credentials daily, we have a commitment in Scotland to become leader in the alternative routes to a non nuclear future based on ever more sophisticated renewables.

The devil, say, the sceptics, will be well embedded in the detail.

Scotland a more prosperous nation on its own? Show workings please. All of them. Right now.

The problem, say the fearful, is the uncertainty of it all. What if we are buffeted afresh by the unforeseen winds of economic change?

How will we cope?

To which I can only respond that whatever lies round the next corner I will feel happier, healthier, safer, more proud and more involved if the decisions which calibrate Scotland?s vision and inform Scotland?s values are made in Edinburgh.

People will not be voting yes in 2014 for any particular party or government. This is a referendum, not a parliamentary election.

People voting yes will be quite simply plighting their troth to their country?s future as a state as well as a nation. And I will be one of them.

KatieScarlett2833 · 23/09/2012 13:05

Because we have a choice narked ?

Isn't that what the whole issue is about?

nankypeevy · 23/09/2012 13:06

Scottish, living in Scotland.

Independence is a disaster waiting to happen. i've never really forgiven Alex Salmond for the "free by '93" campaign. Piece of nonsense.

Am an undecided voter. joking, obviously

Narked · 23/09/2012 13:07

See ^. Lots of great reasons. It will be particularly entertaining 8 years after independence when the SNP fully implode.

scorchienne · 23/09/2012 13:08

PicklesThePottyMouthedParrotSun 23-Sep-12 11:26:53
As long as we get Scottishmummy I don't mind.
Grin /agree

I have many Scottish friends and family, with differing political allegiances all bar none agree independence would be a bad thing for GB as a whole and Scotland as a singular

moonieponds · 23/09/2012 13:08

So what is devo max in a nutshell please ItIsAllGoingToBeFine?

LadyBeagleEyes · 23/09/2012 13:08

Why do these threads inevitably lead to Scottish bashing?Confused
I don't think the majority of those who are pro independence are anti English.
We just want what we think is best for Scotland,