to keep my dd out of school until they sort out the bullying?

[ddbullied]

DD is 12 years old and in her last year in primary school. She has been bullied for over four years now and nothing productive or preventative has been done to stop it in the longterm. They lay off for a few days but it all boils back up again when the storm blows over in a matter of days.

The most recent thing is exclusion by the whole class without sayin why so rather than have her go through every break time on her own I've removed her from the school, lost the plot with the principal (who I've been calm with for four years!) and told him he fixes it or I'm going to take it to the police, the health authority and the national papers.

Here is what she has endured during those years:

*property has been emptied from her bag onto the floor

*she hung her coat every morning - every lunchtime it was on the floor

*constant nasty comments and names regarding her appearance - she had prominent ears and
teeth but has had corrective surgery and now wears braces

*property stolen

*property damaged/defaced

*nasty remarks written about her on the desks and on the walls and doors in the bathrooms

*Her clothes have been written on and uncapped markers left in her pockets staining them.

*she was hit so hard on the head with a pencilcase it broke her hairband in half

*her lunch has been taken from her in front of her while the child taking it laughed at her daring her to challenge

*she is hassled for her lunch and called names when she refuses

*she has been set up to be riduculed - pretending to be her friend and laughing at her when she falls for it

*lies told about her to other children to turn them against her

*they have told lies about me so the other children will not play with her because her mum is horrible (Thankfully proven to be a lie now, devastating at the time and even when the truth was outed she was isolated for getting the other child in trouble)

*Treated far more roughly in a game than the other children but ridiculed because 'everybody else can take it' even though she has been physically hurt)

*her hair ties have been pulled from her hair and disgarded

*physical/verbal threats but when she stands up to it the whole class take the side of the bully

*whispering/sniggering while pointing at her

*kicked/pinched/pushed to the ground 'in the game'

*ridiculed at sport

*isolated and ignored during break times/walked away from when she asks why

*lies told to her best friend to turn her against her

*cyberbullying/prank phonecalls calling her names

These are only what I can think of off the top of my head. It has been relentless. We obviously wanted to move dd to a different school long ago but she won't have any of it because of the friends she does have and also because the secondary school she'll be going to will be attended by all of them anyway so she feels better not to leave and then have to return next year and face them again anyway. I also feel it would be a further punishment, making her suffer the loss of friendships, a final blow from the bullies. The other parents refuse to believe their angels are doing anything and that dd is misunderstanding them!

I've recently found that dd has searched suicide on the internet and been asking me about death and what happens when people die. I'm scared out of my wits.

I want to keep her out of school until something official is done but dd is so far behind the rest of the class academically that I'm worried the time out will only make things worse and increase the gap so much that she will have to repeat giving more fuel to the bullies who taunt her for being 'stupid'.

What would you do? Send her back and hope that the principal will do his job this time even though he has let us all down on several occasions in the past or keep her out and try to keep up with the work at home which won't always be supervised because we'll both have to work and she'll be with grandparents who won't be able to assist like we would.

Mil has just walked in, better go make her a cup of tea. Be back shortly.

A quick google shows that Stockholm syndrome is a recognised phenomenon in bullied children

Think of it this way: she has not know any other way of relating to these people, and thinking of herself for 4 years. That's a long long time for a child. No wonder she can't see a different life for herself without them in it. She probably doesn't really know that what they do is wrong, only that it makes her feel bad. You, as an adult know that it is wrong. And because what you've tried up til now hasn't worked. you now have to show her. Children understand actions better than words. You show her by taking her way from that.

Nothing can be worse than what she is going through and you have to do that. You have to protect her, make her see that she is worth protecting, get big and huggy, tell her you know best and you are going to stop her being abused.

Sorry but I feel a bit sick listening to you put up all the excuses why your daughter is continuing to be a abused each day at school.

Four years of shit, no wonder she doesn't know her arse from her elbow. You have to do something because what are you going to say when she turns round and asks you why you didn't do anything. Saying they you took her feelings into account will sound a little empty. You are the parent you make the decisions to protect her.

Sorry to be blunt but I work in CAMHS and get cross with parents saying they did everything they could to protect their child when they so didn't. Seeing the broken messed up kids at the end of it all makes me so cross.

Poor DD! She should be blossoming not thinking about suicide. The school is failing her but also you are failing her by not putting a stop to the situation. You are her guardian and should make the big decisions on her behalf.

In your shoes, I would take her out of school for a couple of months and see how it feels to home school. There are many different types of home ed but sometimes it is more child led. Also subjects like Maths can be done on line. If you research there is home ed advice, groups and some activities where she can make new friends. You can also promise to have regular weekly play dates for her old friends. Promise that she won't loose touch. It might take months or years to build her self confidence back up, but you must.

If you do contemplate going to a different primary school, you will need to ensure that their bullying policy/ethos is water tight.

You could also consider an alternative school system -Steiner or private day school if you have spare cash.

If you decide not to move schools, you could still remove her for a couple of weeks while the school sort everything out. This will give her a chance to stand back form the situation and look at things from a more objective view point. Write to the ESW and LEA what ever you do so they are aware of the situation. And yes I would leave a long paper trail and also write to all the above mentioned folk - ofsted/papers/MP etc.

MY EXPERIENCE OF BULLYING:

I got bullied from age 9 to age 14; i hate admitting it even now - & i'm 36.
It was only from a small group of girls who i thought were my 'friends'... looking back i was popular with quite a few of the kids in other classes; but unfortunately ended up with some really bitchy girls in my class.

I didn't have the social skills to make really good friends outside my class who i could spend breaks with - i don't think i have ASD; it's more that i didn't learn those skills as a child due to my home environment.

Then with bullying my self-esteem was destroyed so i couldn't make different friends - i didn't understand that life outside those friendships could be better.

I know that some of it was caused by jealousy as i was academically clever; i was pretty as a child & teachers fussed over me & made me be 'the pretty girl' in school plays - i was too small to understand that it was a bad thing to stand out but it would have cause resentment.
I was probably still pretty in Middle School but turned into a real geek to look at because i had no fashionable clothes; & i was scared to look pretty - for personal reasons.
At Upper School i got into fashion & make up so looked pretty again; but then got sexually harrassed by the boys (young men really). & i was still bullied by the same girls until I FINALLY understood what true friendship was; & age 14 made a new group of girl friends to hang out with; i'm still mates with those genuinely lovely women now.
The bullying had stopped by age 14; but the situation at school was unpleasant (drug dealing in the classroom, intimidating gang leaders who sexually harrassed me but i couldn't admit it).

So i had a serious breakdown age 15 & was hospitalised. I did GCSE retakes, got a diploma & degree; & i have good friends & a house so my life is successful in some respects. I also have a good career although i need to change jobs.
But i never have had a proper relationship with a man (my issues sadly) & so no marriage / children yet.

MY ADVICE:

I was suicidal at 12. But i didn't have the internet to encourage me.

Make her see that she is the most important person in yours & your DH's life, tell her that if she ever kills herself it would destroy you both.

Supervise ALL her internet use - be in the same room if she uses it.

Supervise her mobile phone use if possible so she can't contact the bullying 'friends' & they can't bully her with texts etc.
Keep copies of any bullying texts & emails.

Keep her out of school for now - whatever she says - she'll suddenly feel relieved to be out of that toxic environment.

Keep her seeing the therapist; consider family therapy. Be prepared for truths you don't want to hear - for example; family stresses that are affecting her too.
But you must find out what makes her a target for abuse. The therapist must teach her how to accept herself while building her confidence. A brace & ear surgery was a good idea but she's getting bullied now she's prettier - is she a really nice girl who is very forgiving? Those are good qualities but she has to learn to be assertive with it.
People throughout life look for scapegoats; & it's usually a person who is perceived as being unable to stick up for themselves. Sadly it could just be that which these children (soon to be young adults) are picking up on.
(Look up 'Group Theory' in Psychology - it's interesting & could be relevant to what's happening).
You mentioned 'snobs' - if there's a wealthier clique of people in your town then she may have learned from you subconsciously that she's 'not as good as them'. You need to teach her that she is - & teach yourself that YOU are as good as them too.

Don't listen to your daughter. She's 12 & doesn't understand that these girls are not true friends; that they are bad for her health; & that she deserves better (i wish i'd known that aged 12).
Tell her again & again that she deserves better from other people & she will hopefully start to believe it.
It's no different than if she was age 22 & just escaping from an abusive relationship with a man - her self-esteem will be so low & she will think she deserves the way she is treated.

She needs to 'find herself' - that means staying off school & discovering what she really likes & wants out of life. That will boost her confidence. Also find a 'safe' environment for her to socialise in - maybe different hobbies / group activities; maybe voluntary work - stuff that will make her happy & confident.

Make sure she tells you asap the first signs - however small or subtle - that bullying may start again from different people; that way you can help her fight it.

Education is most important in the GCSE years. If she's clever then she'll catch up with her education by that age - once she's out of the bullying situation.
Even if she has to do retakes at college - it's not the end of the world.
I have a friend from Portugal who left school age 11 - she's 37 now with a succcessful job in England & NVQ level 3 achieved as a Care Assistant; written by herself in English - a language she could barely speak in & not write in until 6 years ago. If she can succeed then anyone can :)

The main aim is to stop the bullying.
Start afresh at this Secondary School next year if she likes; but speak to the school in advance now; they must keep her away from the main bullies & be prepared to pull her out of school again.
She can spend this year building her self-esteem.
Personally i'd say move if you can to a bigger town & start again.
Re: paper trail - keep copies of every single letter, keep a diary, record phonecalls to anyone involved.

Sorry for the essay but best wishes to you & your daughter; stay strong. x

I would have taken her out ages ago and move her, that's is what you must do, it could affect her for the rest of her life

seriously send the school a letter today to say you are deregis tering her with immediate effect. What are you waiting for ? Best case her confidence and self esteem are permanently damaged and she thinks you care so little you did nothing (not true but thats how she will interpret it ) worst case scenario ,you come home to find her swinging .sorry to be blunt but every year young children your dds age do tate their own lives. Nothing is going to change after four years you must see that

Prompted by most of the replies I've talked to dd about it this morning. I now have a 12 year old who won't hug me, talk to me, has screamed at me, asked me what's wrong with me that I don't get it she doesn't want to move schools and says she won't go if I try to make her.

She said she knows a lot of the girls in the other school and it'll be the same. I say ok dd we can move. She stood up and looked at me like I had just kicked her in the stomach before crying "no, no, mum I don't want to move". I tried to explain that not all girls were like the ones she goes to school with, that she could be so much happier somewhere else and make a fresh start and be happy. I told her I was afraid. Afraid that she was beginning to believe the nasty things being said about her when I knew they were not true and only being said to hurt her and out of jealousy.

Look, I'm not rehashing over the full conversation. I said what I have said to her a million times before and I've said some ofthe things suggested here. the bottom line is, as I said before I truely believe moving her would be a quicker route to finding her swinging and this morning has proven that.

So what do I do? Say everybody on the internet says I should just send her and take the risk of her doing it? No thanks. I'll continue with my plan to keep her out until I've sorted it out. So far I have eight pages written to the principal and BOM and all the things I listed below. I'll be hitting him straight between the eyes with it later today or tomorrow. I phoned the education department last week who said they can do nothing until an official complaint has been lodged with the BOM so that's on the back burner for the moment.

I am giving them one week to sort it out and have advised the letter I will be going to he media next. I have named and shamed them all. I have pointed out his failure in his higher duty of care and told him I believe he has been negligent and that I am prepared to take legal action.

I'll await the outcome before deciding what to do next.

*a lot of people have pm'd me. I can't reply to all of you individually but wanted to say thank you to all of you. I appreciate you taking the time to try to understand and the advice and help you've offered.

Don't worry about her academic progress: as others have said, she's learning nothing but how to be a victim now anyway. Google unschooling, deschooling - there are alternative ways of getting educated. Take her out & tell her she's not necessarily going to secondary school, that she doesn't have to. Help her see that the world is wider. Her grandparents can support her in home education if you take an autonomous learning approach: she'll need facilitation - lifts, internet access (agree not unsupervised until mental health better, am talking longer term), money for all the social groups she wants/you can - no matter if she has quieter days & then loads of late afternoon/evening activities, she'll have the energy then.

What I've just realised is unless I wrote an epic op or drip fed to eternity I couldnt possibly relate the last four years but I can assure you all my dd has not been alone. She is not neglected, she is not unloved, she is not ignored and her feelings have not been dismissed. We've lived this nightmare as a family.

Some of your comments I actually find insulting to the families of children who have taken their own lives, implying somehow that they mustn't have given a fuck or their child would be alive. They would have stopped the bullying, they would have moved them, they would have told them they were loved. It's an ignorant and disgusting insinuation that those parents didn't care or do enough to protect their children. It's easy on the outside looking in, in reality it's not as simple as some of you have made out.

I've taken people down from ropes and tried to revive them when they've od'd. I have witnessed first hand the fallout of some poor individual making that decision. I am trying the only way I know how to prevent it happening to us and part of that is listening to my child because she has a basic human right to be heard and respected.

X-posted. Wishing you & your daughter well.

Thank you

Good luck OP. You have your daughter's best interests at heart and you have to deal with this in the best way for her. If she is adamant she wants to stay at school then pulling her out might do more harm than good. Please let us know how it goes with the school. I don't live in Ireland any more but I grew up there and I am sorry to say that it doesn't sound like much has changed in the school system since my own experiences of it. Sounds like you have got the order of things straight - BOM then education department and press. Just remember the press can be a double-edged sword, particularly if your daughter wants to stay in the school. I wish you and her the very best.

Bloody hell. Your poor daughter. Poor you. It sounds like you've tried your very best.
Out of interest, what does your daughter say when you ask her whether she's being bullied? I'm just wondering if she's so used to it now that she thinks this is normal.
As others have said, I would take her out of school immediately. Is it possible for you to home educate in the long term? I would consider doing this.
In the meantime, whilst I can see your point about giving your DD some control of her life, I think you have to put your foot down on this one. I would tell her about Stockholm Syndrome and tell her, honestly, that you are the parent and that you will no longer send her somewhere dangerous. If she wants to have a go at secondary school, that's fine. I'd also arrange that she has her friends over after school so that she doesn't feel she's lost those (they're probably very, very precious to her at the moment.)

Don't lose the anger. Use it to show this bastard HT you're serious. Don't lose it with him, but don't hold back: You don't want to be his friend. Tell him he's let your DD down in his duty of care and that you'll be contacting the relevant authorities, including OFSTED or Irish equivalent.

First of all OP, I'm so sorry your DD and you are going through this unnecessary stress, it's so unfair and horrible,

I will share my experience, I have done before here and got an "interesting" response, so strapping on my tin hat, sometimes you have nothing to lose,

our DS1 is a fluffy, he doesn't hit back, if attacked or put down in anyway, he just moves away, which made him a target in primary, it's just not in his nature to be aggressive in anyway, which is a good thing as he is the size of a bear these days,

he is now a very happy go lucky very popular guy, so don't worry, if you can get your DD through this, she will find real friends who will love her,, and recognise her qualities, and look out for her,

we did all the hoop jumping with the school that is covered above, lots of good advice, but the school failed to protect him, I even had a teacher once say, "If he would only hit back just once, they might stop", yea, brilliant, so he has to become as bad as them, because you can't do your job,

one day one of his tormenters, a very disturbed lad, stabbed him with a pencil and broke it off in his shoulder in class whilst he was reading a book, he required hospital treatment, the last in a long line of attacks,

I changed tack,

the following day, I arrived at school at 8.30am, I met the head as she came in, she started her usual guff, I didn't accept her excuse crap,

I explained to her very formally, and handed it to her in writing,

Mrs. .............,

This is my son, .............., I quoteunquote am leaving in your care at 8.45am, at ...........school on the 22nd of feb 2002,

I hold YOU, Mrs ............ personally responsible for his care and welfare during the time he is here at .............school,

I will take it personally and react appropriately if anything concerns me about his experiences during the time he is in your(mrs ..........) care,

I will collect .............. from you (mrs ............) here (Mrs..........'s office) at 3.15pm on the 22nd of feb 2002,

yours sincerely

quoteunquote,

looked her square in the eye, and asked if she had any questions, she didn't, I explained I had no choice as we had exhausted all other avenues, and I felt aggrieved that I had to resort to this,

I repeated this every day for the rest of the term, when she wasn't available I did it with the deputy head,(I pre printed letters with blanks for details)we never had another problem, and DS1 enjoyed the rest of his time at school,

It might of helped that I look like I can rip the head off a horse, and have a stare that kills trees,

Why the gibbons, they couldn't of done what ever they then did, before I had to resort to such methods is anyone guess, but I made them do what they had to do to protect my son, they just had to "want" to do it.

Good luck, and make sure your DD knows none of this is her fault, it is the failure of the responsible adults, not hers.

dd bullied

my heart bleeds for you praise be something i havant had to deal with my DD..and hope I never will but DB had downs syndrome and was bullied all life - from minor stuff from strangers in street, to other stuff. Its just heart breaking.

I havant read through whole thread - BUT unless anyone else mentioned it - one small thing I would do is print out - copies of the news paper stories where bullied children have committed suicide and be dramatic and every bit of corospondence to the school or local authority I would write on it -

Do we have to have a death before someone sits up and does something about this?

Also add a few more of your own (worst case scenario) head lines -

Four years of bullying no one listened to us - etcetc

I only say this as once was dealing with company on serious issues they werent listening so I emailed everyone i could find of senior authority with worst case scenario head lines as they mighgt appear in papers, and I was contacted within the hour by head office and my problem resolved with much grovelling.

Sorry to go on, its just people can be afraid of being dramtatic but if you think the pepole you are dealing with dont seem to be bothered about your DD, maybe they are miserable, going through divorce - finianical problems, lots of other paretns moaning about differnet things ....you need to make an " impression" on them....

obvioulsy keeping her out of school is one way - i would go all guns blazing now...

" Mother had to keep DD off school after four years of ignoring childs bullying plight " etc..

my hearts breaks for you both

I was bullied aged 11-13, and I can assure you that life does go on and will get better. I am a bit defensive and agressive as a result, but hey ho!!

I am pleased you are seeing a therapist, as I really think you need to get to the bottom of why she does NOT want to leave school. It sounds like other school will be no better anyway right?? I think thats whats worrying me the most here, and thats why you need help

has she got stockholm syndrome?
whats behind her wanting to stay?

I agree with a 3 pronged apporoach as suggested by many:

have the counselling for her. PLEASE DO THIS
Utilise the Irish links for support
start to get tough with HT/teachers- like others have suggested, SOME GREAT ADVICE

Its so easy for people to say "move house"- but I know its tough in Ireland right now

But, like you, it sounds like her self esteem is being really eroded

My prayers that you can start to see some light at the end of the tunnel OP

I am also worried that this is taking a toll on you too, you sound (understandably) desperate

get help for you too

xxxx

I really feel for you and your DD, OP :( You are not doing anything wrong, and you sound like you're doing everything you can. I was bullied for 8 years in primary (not in UK hence 8 years of primary school) and my parents did everything. Throughout the hell of it I always knew that my parents were on my side. My mother is a lioness at the best of times, my dad's so laid back that he'd be horizontal if he got any more relaxed but the one thing that riles him is people upsetting his daughter. It didn't help. Bullying is insidious, and it needs a true commitment from the school, all the parents involved and everyone else to stop - and even then it doesn't always.

I do not know what you should do. I don't know if moving her is the answer, and I don't know if leaving her where she is would be worse for her. What I would do is keep her off for now and use the time to help her relax, while you make a plan for the rest of the year and for secondary. Do you have any option of sending her to a secondary where she knows no one? That's what I did. (my choice, my parents would've let me go to any of the secondaries within reasonable distance that was academically suitable and there were many) Picked a school where I didn't know anyone, only one from my primary to go there. First year was hard, got bullied a little, school came down on it like a ton of bricks and it stopped. Had a fantastic time for the remaining years.

One thing I wonder if it might help - you say that a therapist has recently started working with her. Could the therapist explore with her why she doesn't want to change schools, what she fears will happen if she does, and work to articulate those fears, as well as figuring out whether or not they are realistic? If your DD is anything like me (which I don't know, of course, but my experiences of being bullied certainly contributed to this) she may feel anxious about change. Bullying has you constantly on edge because you never know what they'll do to you next, and it's exhausting. Keeping everythinge else in your environment the same (so not changing school, moving house, etc) can be a way of trying to exert a tiny bit of control in a situation where you are powerless. When you say 'change schools', it's possible her brain just short circuits and defaults to 'panic', because that is yet more control she feels she is losing. If that's the reason, you may be able to calmly, slowly, and without pressure, work through it to the point where she feels able to consider the notion rationally.

Good luck.

thanks for all the posts and shared experiences.

Here's what I have done in the last two days:

*written an eleven page letter outlining every incident I could recall and the general conditions and treatment dd has been subjected to.

*pointed out his duty of care and his failure to provide it

*named and shamed

*listed dd's rights and entitlements

*reiterated my concerns about her learning ability

*printed out 22 pages of research on recognised types of bullying, highlighted the ones which pertain to dd (most of them), the short and long-term effects of bullying, the relationship between bullying and adolescent suicide.

*included a copy of the legal requirement to report suspected cases of child abuse which include abuse by children.

*included an extract stating how many schools are now facing criminal charges of neglect for failing to protect the children in their care.

*Included 4 newspaper reports of adolescent suicide after bullying.

*gave him a period of one week for resolution

*advised I would go the health service, police, local TD's and media after one week.

He didn't even ask how dd was but I'm not bothered because I know he's running scared now, we have a very strong case and the board of management are going to come down on him like a ton of bricks if we go public.

Will let you know!

well done you, your DD is lucky she has such a lovely mum, I hope you make some progress, best of luck, and please let us know how it pans out.

I've no experience of bullying but I am bloody and on your dd's behalf that she's been subjected to this. And so sorry for you too. Well done for taking action. I have everything crossed for you, love x

Good for you. You've got fire in your belly.

Fantastic stuff! Well done!

Fantastic - I really really feel for you that you have had such a poor response from these people that you have had to get worked up like this- but its the best way....

Sadly people who do not really care about others - have to have a hook to be made to care - usually that involves themselves in some way...

make sure you send a copy of the letter to the board of governors.