to think that there is NEVER an acceptable reason to call a 32 year old woman a "young girl?"

[Hullygully]

No I'm not.

I couldn't care less what emotive flannel is flung about.

IT. IS.NOT.ACCEPTABLE.

The end.

"well...I am a girl." maybe you're quite a bit younger than me then. I stops being a girl someone between becoming a company director and having children, though I'm not quite sure when. But it sure as hell stopped being appropriate to introduce me as a girl but my colleagues as men as soon as I started working in a similar job.

I stops stopped being a girl someonetime

But if you think this one use is so influential that one would have to justify it to one's daughters, why do you not think that it could also be influential for gathering evidence from witnesses?

"So Jessie, we have to infantalise women to garner public sympathy and support ? If so, it's a bigger problem than I thought"

"Actually that thought horrifies me. We infantalise women because it's the easiest way to win hearts and minds. We infantalise women so we can catch the bad men. How about embarking on a real effort to overcome stereotypes and prejudice instead of using demeaning women because it's the easy option.

Fuck me, really ??"

"It's not irrelevant just because you don't like the answer. "

"You are claiming that the end justifies the means ?

I am questioning why we had to have these women portrayed as young girls to obtain sympathy and support for the police. Is being a police officer killed in the line of duty not enough ? Is the fact that they were brave women not enough ? And if not, why not ? And why is it acceptable to use women this way - infantalising and diminishing them to suit a bigger purpose ?"

Which part didn't I answer ?

Kewcumber, Ive had worse, at the same place where I worked. I have been discriminated against because I have had children. I have been called "That woman who has bred". My immediate managers are very sexist. But they still call the men "boys".

Being called a girl doesnt register on my bothered-o-meter, because as I say, I am a girl. A 32 year old girl. A young girl, if you will.

Yes I am quite a bit older than you. Though tbh it would (and did) bother me at 32 as well.

I asked how the use of two words, in connection with a particular incident, could have a large effect on the minds of the next generation, but no effect on the minds of witnesses.

You've answered with lots of deep reflective questions of your own. But not an answer to mine. I suppose there's an implied, "yes, you're right Jessie, it will affect witnesses, but I think there's a middle ground that wouldn't use such words, and still appeal to witnesses".

atacareer
In my direct experience, its part of the process of not taking women quite as seriously in the workplace as men. I have also heard senior women being called "jumped up secretaries" i.e. they should know their place and stop trying to do the men's roles. I have walked into high level meetings with 20+ people in the room and been the only woman - you have to insist on being treated like an equal in all aspects including language.

Perhaps your managers refer to you as "boys" and "girls" because they think they are superior to all their staff. It certainly doesn't sound like a term of respect given what you have said about their other comment.

My grandma (73) belongs to 'The Old Girls Association'. The members are all people my grandma went to school with. They refer to themselves as 'the girls' :o

Dames seems to be winning as choice of word on the guys/blokes/chaps equivalent thread. Hence my new nn.

Ahem...

I'm not sure I have the courage to call other women that in Real Life (tm). I'll work it into threads though.

It really suits you, kewcumber

Incidentally, I am playing Devil's advocate inside my head: I've got three, possibly four answers to my question which do not concede, violate PARD or form a fallacious argument. There must be more.

But if you think this one use is so influential that one would have to justify it to one's daughters, why do you not think that it could also be influential for gathering evidence from witnesses?

Jessie, are you seriously suggesting that the Chief Commissioner of Manchester Police heard about the murder of two police officers (females). and thought to himself, I know, if I call them "young girls" people will tell on the gunman.

Please tell me you don't think that...

It's more helpful in life to see things as they are.

He is an old school dinosaur embedded in a sexist culture that has yet to join the modern world (ask SharonGless).

All these excuses about luring witnesses, speaking parents' words etc etc are just a load of flim flam.

If it looks like a fish, smells like a fish and tastes like a fish...it's a fish.

Less about what "I think" and whatever. Not in the mood for that. I'm asking you what you mean.

Yay. Been seething for nearly two years. So, thanks all.

Eh? I think ^^

Dunno that emoticon. Is that raised eyebrows?

No! It means the post up there!

Ah. I put the wrong pronoun in the quotation marks. Should be "you[I/Jessie] think(s)".

I genuinely don't think that the police had time to sit down and consider that the use of such language would have an impact and that it was a deliberate ploy to affect witnesses.

AND if it was, why would it have been acceptable to use these womens deaths in that way ?

I'm cynical, but not that cynical, and think it was done unthinkingly which was inexcusable because it indicates a bigger issue

I cannot know the though process behind "young girl". There have been lots of theories. Just about every single one has plausibility.

Although I thought some bits of the statement were superlative in terms of persuading witnesses to come forward. However, I have never had to craft statements to persuade citizenry, so I don't know what actually works.

But I asked whether it could have no/neglible effect now, and be powerful enough to reverberate to the next generation.

If anything the next generation will be sniggering at how thick the police are if they think saying "young girl" about a grown woman would make them give a shit.

Hang on, I never actually answered this thread's OP.

In general parlance, in my day to day life, I would find it patronising/odd. But I am also aware that I always react to adult deaths of anyone under the age of Methuselah by saying, "but s/he was so young?. And that is probably why, however unjustifiably it might be, I did not take exception to it. Maybe I should expect better of professionals- that was a fair point.