to think that there is NEVER an acceptable reason to call a 32 year old woman a "young girl?"

[Hullygully]

No I'm not.

I couldn't care less what emotive flannel is flung about.

IT. IS.NOT.ACCEPTABLE.

The end.

In that case, yes he should have been more careful of his choice of words. My apologies, I had no intention to mislead, I really thought he was acting as the family liaison officer.

I've found the quote "I?m going to look beyond the uniform here. What we?ve got are two young girls that went out this morning and they?ve got an absolute right to come home tonight to their loved ones. This is cold-blooded murder. It?s the slaughter of the innocents.?

So there was a specific attempt to "personalise" rather than "professionalise" the women. Yes, not the best choice of words, but I see what he was trying to do.

The CC was directly quoting friends and family, the chatterbox quote was not his choice of words.

Oh Hully, how can you say the murder is irrelevant? That really is a poor choice of words. Of course its relevant, context is everything.

Tuttu you have already proved yourself to be six so I cba to reply to you.

Not here it isn't

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MURDER OF ANYONE.

IT'S ABOUT WORDS USED IN ANY CIRCS TO DESCRIBE PROFESSIONAL WOMEN

I can't say it any more

I just can't

You can all win and infantilise and demean professional women to your hearts' content.

Enjoy.

Have fun explaining your choices to your daughters.

Thebossofme, he had just performed a welfare role and been comforting the grieving colleagues.
If you actually watched the coverage he was struggling to hold back tears

The words used were about two murdered women. Of course it is relevant, since you specifically refer to acceptable reasons and circumstance in your OP. You can't then rail against people who give you examples of exactly that.

You can't decontextualise language without it becoming meaningless newspeak.

The bossofme, you has managed to articulate what I ave been trying to say.

In most contexts I totally agree with Hully and seeker.

On this occasion I think there are justifiable reasons why the phrase was used.

My opinion only

Oh fish silly girl I am, I didnt read the thread title, its all clear now

As a feminist, who believes in women's rights etc, you must surely appreciate and understand that some females don't mind being called young girls, otherwise you are just some no-one wandering about mn telling us all what we should think.

Thank god you're not.

YANBU

I know that this thread has partly arisen because of the comments made about the two policewomen who were tragically killed but it is a wider problem.

I admit to emailing the BBC during the Olympics because I got tired of the presenters saying "the men have some good medal prospects in ... and so do the girls"

I noticed a day or so later one of the presenters correcting himself because I believe there had been quite a few similar complaints.

Its part of the spectrum that led one former boss of mine to ask me to cover the phones whilst the secretary was on holiday. I am professionally qualified and more senior that some of my collegues (all of whom are male). Not one of my male colleagues was asked. Unsurprisingly I refused and suggested he asked one of the more junior blokes - strangely enough he didn't .

Exactly - lots of us have given examples of being called 'girls' in professional settings. On this very thread, about that very thing.

sharon i saw the coverage and that's one of the reasons I thought he had been with family. Although as I have repeatedly said upthread, people outside the forces sometimes struggle to understand the extent to which your colleagues are your family.

I just refuse to pick apart the language of the grieving and tell them that they should have done better. It just seems so very oppressive to do so, to me. I appreciate not everyone shares my feelings on this. But its the way I feel. No matter how much I care about language in other contexts.

Boss, (and then I really am going)

It's not to do with grieving and letting him off the hook because because

It's the fact that the words that came to him when he WASN'T THINKING were those. They were automatic and spoke volumes about entrenched attitudes and the culture towards women.

He would not have said YOUNG BOYS about two male police officers and if you say he might, I will lose all respect for you.

No but what if he said young lads-is that not comparable?

No.

The comparable of young lads is young lasses. He could have got away with that.

Young girls/boys = primary age children

I'm afraid I don't know where to start

Start by understanding why language was important to humanise these two 'uniforms', which many won't care how many 'uniforms' are killed, the more the merrier for some.

The title ask "is there ever a reason", well yes, there is when a killer is at large and you want to reach the public, especially those not well educated and involved in criminal behaviour.

Use professional language and you will lose any support from many.

You need to take on board how many problems are running with the 'police's' behaviour, at present.

You need to ask just why that might be.

Oh the bitter bitter irony.

Shall we start with the sus laws?

The corruption?

The sex crimes?

Where woudl you like to begin?

No, I don't think he would have said young boys. He might have said young lads, maybe, but I'm not 100% sure he would. And I don't think his language was perfect. And I don't think that sexism, deeply entrenched sexism, doesn't exist alongside racism and all manner of other isms in institutions such as the police and the armed forces.

But I don't think that we can condemn him personally as sexist for a poor choice of words in very trying and emotional circumstances. Fuck knows I put my foot in my mouth enough times when under pressure.

Nice to know I am (was) respected by you, though

How about "the boys in blue"?

You can understand why he reverted to his default sexist position under pressure.

But not forgive it.

Or wish it changed.

How about the YOUNG boys in blue?

Fish??? Wtf, that should have said dear haha, god this phone makes me laugh

Yes, have heard that said in relation to a young constable killed on duty, and by a very emotional Captain about two sailors drowned in storm.

They were 32 were they? And called YOUNG boys?

Ok