To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

[seeker]

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

I daresay the people who knew them are better placed to decide how they would have liked to be remembered and described. Why are you angry about it?

iknow you are completely right, I knew this already but clearly forgot probably because I'm a girl, would never happen to a man

"Sue Hill, former Met Detective Cheif Superintendent, just referred to them twice as 'Young Girls'.

Should we up in umbrage about this?"

Yes!

Why wouldn't you be if that was a reflection of their personality?

Yeah, i'd be really focussing on that one seeker.

I agree Seeker.

But I'm not getting involved in any more the importance/power of language threads on here because the fact that so many people don't understand winds me up.

So I'm off.

I enjoy getting other peoples opinions on things and MN is a great place to discuss and open your mind up to another persons way of thinking.

However in the case of people on this thread who choose to take offence to such an 'unimportant' detail in the tragic aftermath of these young women dying - I am glad I don't know you in RL as I am sure we would not get along.

I have a friend in the police force and if (god forbid) this was to happen to her - her family and all her friends would expect nothing more then for them to say that 'she had a big personality, was always telling jokes and making people laugh' etc - because that is how we all know her.

Bigger picture - it has nothing to do with you, I'm sure if the family don't like the way it was said they will do something about it - but you don't know how they feel so maybe shut up and stay out of it as it has nothing to do with you and your skewed perception of what is important in these circumstances.

actually if my Daughter was a chatterbox and she was remembered like that it would mean a lot to me. They were young girls and these terms are used in reference to army say "bring home our boys".

You would be proud to hear your police officer child who was murdered doing her duty described as "a chatterbox"?

By colleagues as part of an over all description. Chatterbox was part of her personality by the sound of it -- not all her personality but some of it, a bit like my sister in law who is a deputy head of a secondary school.
Chatterbox was just one tiny part of it and it was used in the context that she had a good morale for the rest of the team.
Seeker you are just focussing on a small part of the tribute.

GoldShip Words have deep meanings. Like all senior staff, senior police officers are aware of that or bloody well should be. Their job is to describe an officer's professionalism and leave the emotion to others.

I thought the Chief Constable's words were okay because he was quoting others who knew the dead officers. The Police Federation spokesman was definitely not on. His choice of words is telling of his view of the people he's supposed to represent. I would be having my own words with him if he described me as a girl because I think it shows lack of respect and understanding.

No one is saying PCs Bone's and Hughes's colleagues should not have described them with affection. I wouldn't like to be described as a 'chatterbox' by a colleague but since they knew each other, it's not my place to comment on that.

Well i have far more respect for someone who has no doubt encountered more discrimination and sexism in her career then many of us ever will, and got where she has through hard graft, then some daft outraged woman on mumsnet starting a thread obsessing over words used by colleagues.

Leaving thread as blood pressure rising.

Some people, especially people in the criminal fraternity do not see the lives of police officers in the same way as the lives of "normal people". This will be an accurate representation of their personalities and also a way of reminding us all that they were PEOPLE. Normal people doing their job who were killed.

My DB is a police officer and if he died on duty, I wouldn't honestly give a shit whether people thought he was good at his job or brave but I would want people to know that he is a young man with his life ahead of him and he is funny and caring.

To try and put a sexist slant on this is ridiculous.

There was a thread on here the other day where women were saying they didn't want to be classed as feminists. I found this very sad because all women should see themselves as feminists ........but the reason they don't is because of bullshit like this.

Nothing wrong with "gentle" and I'm sure I've seen that used to describe a man before. "Chatterbox" perhaps, but I'm more at them, especially the 32 year old, being described as "young girls".

"Bigger picture - it has nothing to do with you, I'm sure if the family don't like the way it was said they will do something about it - but you don't know how they feel so maybe shut up and stay out of it as it has nothing to do with you and your skewed perception of what is important in these circumstances."

No it has nothing to do with me ( or you, as it happens.) and I don't know how the family feel. And obviously, close colleagues, friends and family should say whatever's in their hearts.

But the Chief Constable should pay a proper, respectful tribute to two professional women who were murdered in the course of duty. That is, sadly, part of his job.

Sue Hill also said being in the police is like a family.
When officers die doing their job it's like losing one of your own.
I'm sure that is how the majority of acting officers are feeling today, and yes of course the descriptions came from family or colleagues.
If they're comfortable with the way their beloved daughters or friends are described, that's all that matters.
Not what some rabid feminists say on a website.
I despair of Mumsnet sometimes.

This thread is just going round in circles now!

limited I think you're seriously overlooking things. He was obviously older than them. I doubt he'd have said it were they the same age. That would have been patronising. It happens with both sexes, as someone said unthread 'bring home our boys' and we've had a lot of deaths of men in the army lately who have been described as 'great lads'

It really is a non-issue that people are clinging on to. I'm well aware words have deep meanings but this hasn't, they were young girls in the grand scheme of things. I get described as a young un at work because I am to everyone else. It's a nice way of describing someone. And if they can't show a shred of emotion or a bit of personal input into their speech, then I wouldn't want to hear it. You speak of describing the officers 'professionalism'. That means nothing when your daughter has died. No-one wants to hear a speech that could be used for anyone in the force.

Agree Tweasels - completely.

And in the knowledge of getting flamed I am one of these people that doesn't think of themselves as a feminist.

Yep this is defo one of those threads that make people want to distance themselves from feminism. As discussed in the other thread!

This is the single most fucking disrespectful thing I have read on MN in a long time.

How fucking dare anyone use a double murder of the most shocking kind to let the bee in their bonnet buzz a little louder.

The Chief Constable expliclity stated that he had spoken to friends and family and was relaying their thoughts and memories of the two women.

Might I also remind you that he also explicilty referred to their professionalism in a very personal and poignant way, making it clear that their very different personalities had made them superb officer in very different ways.

Shame on you.

If you look at the tributes from the family, they describe them as people first and police officers second. Their job does not define them. They were people first, someone's daughter/partner/sister etc. Then they became police officers.

This thread is making me angry and upset now. I doubt very much that the people grieving are thinking about words used and if some people will get offended.

And you know what? I fucking AM a feminist.

I am also the wife of a police officer and the friend of many police officers, including women. I am chilled to the bone by these murders and by the government policies that have contributed to them, and will continue to risk the lives and safety of many more police officers in times to come.

Hence the rage, for which I will not apologise.

I don't expect you to apologise for your rage.

However, if you think wanting murdered police officers to be talked about in appropriate, professional language by the Chief Constable is the most disrespectful thing you have ever read on mumsnet, the I am at a loss.

In the light of everything that happened some people still use it as a chance to have their feminist rant. How sad.

As others have said THIS is why people try to distance themselves from some of the 'feminists' on this board because they seem to be turning into the type of people who get upset on other peoples behalves because of a word, not even an insult but a word used to describe the personality of someone who has been tragically murdered

Well said. Glad that sense is finally taking over the thread.

OP - you can crawl back under the rock from which you came.