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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

999 replies

seeker · 19/09/2012 09:20

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

OP posts:

bringbacksideburns · 19/09/2012 10:20

When i heard it i assumed that they had spoken to their colleagues/friends for reference?

I'm sorry but i'm looking at the bigger picture here and not 'angry' at the terminology in the slightest.

Am i missing something?

imnotmymum · 19/09/2012 10:21

It is these sorts of threads when started that makes me think I am not a feminist at all. Total bonkers.

WorraLiberty · 19/09/2012 10:23

Thanks for the context iknowwho

So it was Miss Hughes?s colleagues who called her a chatterbox, not the Chief Constable.

LadyBeagleEyes · 19/09/2012 10:24

The words gave them personalities.
You can look at their pictures and see two people, one talkative and friendly, one gentle and talking about her upcoming wedding.
Isn't that a good thing?

missymoomoomee · 19/09/2012 10:25

Not everything has to be turned into an argument about sexism. Who cares what a man would be described as? Its what these police women were described as by the people who knew them.

I thought it was a lovely tribute to them. What would you prefer them to say? That these women were great at paperwork and had both made x amount of arrests and always showed up to work on time?

Who wants to be remembered like that?

I can't believe out of this whole tragedy this is the part that you are concentrating on.

limitedperiodonly · 19/09/2012 10:25

It jarred with me seeker .

Greater Manchester Chief Constable Peter Fahy referred to the women as 'colleagues' as he should.

Unfortunately Insp Ian Hanson of the GMP Federation described them as 'young girls'.

He's meant to be representing all officers as professionals of equal worth and ability.

It makes me wonder whether he thinks female officers are up to the job. After all, men's bodies are just as weak when required to stop a bullet.

I started work at a time when female police officers were routinely referred to as 'plonks' both inside and outside the job and assigned roles such as talking to children and women, regardless of whether they'd be good at it or whether they wanted to choose their own career path as male officers are expected to do.

You don't use 'plonk' and you don't use WPC or policewoman any more. Everyone is a police officer. That was a change brought about by the police themselves.

Obviously not every serving officer thinks the same way.

Tuttutitlookslikerain · 19/09/2012 10:26

The Prime Minister didn't call these women girls, chatter boxes, gentle or anything else Seeker! FFS stop seeing things that aren't there!

I agree with you, Imnotmum. The reason for starting this thread is bonkers!

DappyHays · 19/09/2012 10:29

23 is a young girl in the context of where she was in her career.

I call my friends the girls. One of my best friends is nearly 80 and she's one of the girls.

My gran is 89 and is a game old gal.

I'm horrified, like everyone else, by these deaths, cardi-clutching at the terms girls and chatterboxes is inappropriate right now.

No-one should be murdered in cold blood ever while doing their day job.

WorraLiberty · 19/09/2012 10:30

The words gave them personalities.

I totally agree LBE. They were after all people and not just Police Officers.

GoldShip · 19/09/2012 10:31

Oh for gods sake so because he described them as 'young girls' he probably thinks they weren't up to the job? Stop putting things in peoples mouths. He wouldn't have thought that at all

this is why feminism isn't going anywhere

aldiwhore · 19/09/2012 10:32

Good point Dappydays to pick these terms apart right now is inappropriate and far more disrespectful to the officers who died than refering to them as girls.

Itsjustafleshwound · 19/09/2012 10:33

But it is just the whole 'he meant it affectionately' or 'he was humanising the tragedy' unerlines the whole fact at just how acceptable it is to be undermining towards these women.

iknowwho · 19/09/2012 10:34

Not everything has to be turned into an argument about sexism

it does on MN....... You should know that by now!!

Binkyridesagain · 19/09/2012 10:36

I think their colleagues where more concerned about giving a fitting tribute to 2 respected officers. Rather than questioning if their choice of words would cause some people to be angry.
In a situation such as this,I would much prefer a tribute that spoke from the heart and showed these women to be humans first officers second, rather than a robotic politically correct speech that would only show the police service devoid of compassion.

GoldShip · 19/09/2012 10:38

blinky is spot on.

One of their colleagues have just died. Do you honestly think they gave a fuck about being PC in case a few extreme feminists decided to ignore the key point at hand and focus of the 'chatterbox' and 'young girls'. Which if you've got any sense you'd see as affectionate terms. I know women who refer to men as young lads! It's not jus a female thing.

Its disgusting that this is being debated instead of us honouring them, them dying in the line of duty.

nokidshere · 19/09/2012 10:38

Personally I feel sad for anyone who would hate to be spoken about in such lovely terms - regardless of whether the language used was "pc" or not!

There isn't a person in the country today who doesn't think that these two officers were professional and brave.

If you feel undermined because someone describes you as "a bubbly chatterbox who's friends and colleagues loved her because she was a good listener and very calm" then you obviously have some self esteem issues!

bigkidsdidit · 19/09/2012 10:39

Iamnot disagreeing with this thread doesn't make you not a feminist, I'm a feminist and I disagree

I think 'a gentle young lad' could well be used to describe a soldier of 23 ish killed in the line of duty

I think the two officers were discussed with great respect. I also think we use words like 'young girls / young lads' to emphasise how very terrible the crime was IYSWIM

Original poster

seeker · 19/09/2012 10:40

"Its disgusting that this is being debated instead of us honouring them, them dying in the line of duty."

As I have said repeatedly, I think the language used has not "honoured them". Or shown them respect. That is why I am angry about it. They deserved better.

OP posts:

NimpyWindowMash · 19/09/2012 10:41

Why is chatterbox demeaning?
Because it has a connotation of triviality.
Because it would never be said about an older person.
Because it would never be said about a man.

No blame to the chief constable, if the chosen words came directly from colleagues, but even so, the language is undermining.

Why is it inappropriate to be disappointed by the sexist language used? When would be more appropriate?

GoldShip · 19/09/2012 10:42

Seeker then me and you must have been listening to different things.

bringbacksideburns · 19/09/2012 10:42

Sue Hill, former Met Detective Cheif Superintendent, just referred to them twice as 'Young Girls'.

Should we up in umbrage about this?

If my daughter was described as gentle would this make me angry and think she was not doing her job efficiently?

Original poster

seeker · 19/09/2012 10:42

And because it is not professional.

OP posts:

iknowwho · 19/09/2012 10:42

As I have said repeatedly, I think the language used has not "honoured them". Or shown them respect. That is why I am angry about it. They deserved better.

They got the tribute they deserved by the sound of things tbh.

I would be proud if people said such things in the circumstance about my child.
It was heartfelt and personal.

iknowwho · 19/09/2012 10:45

This thread is getting beyond mad now.
Colleagues have been devastated and in shock and needed something quick to read out to the media about a colleague and people are fucking whinging about it being sexist!!

Original poster

seeker · 19/09/2012 10:46

You would be proud to hear your police officer child who was murdered doing her duty described as "a chatterbox"?

OP posts:

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