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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry that the Chief Constable chose the words..

999 replies

seeker · 19/09/2012 09:20

"gentle" and "a chatterbox" respectively to describe the two women police officers who were murdered on duty yesterday.

Can you imagine those words ever being used to describe a man?

OP posts:
threeOrangesocksmorgan · 19/09/2012 21:26

YA BU and do you just not get how sick this thread is

Isityouorme · 19/09/2012 21:30

Seeker ...... Consider your own fucking words.

Aboutlastnight · 19/09/2012 21:30

You are all nuts.

Leithlurker · 19/09/2012 21:32

Wow what a thread, it does make me wonder what was seeker's objective for posting in the first place. It seems that it has been a bit of an own goal in terms of propagating radfem, or even just feminist views. In some ways the danger of applying politics to real life is the fact that you stick your head above the parapet and fair play to seeker and other regular FWR posters. But it has been a pretty bruising thread.

Empusa · 19/09/2012 21:33

Men described as chatterboxes

here
"a constant chatterbox on and off the field, fired by a perceived sense of injustice at the way his country has been treated by the rugby elite."
here
"After she was involved in a car accident with chatterbox manager Will.i.am"
www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20120826/NEWS/120829876/1070&ParentProfile=1058
"One of my clients was a chatterbox; he could talk for two hours without stopping"
here
"With his hat pulled low, Smith was all smiles as he carried on with this set. Tapping out beats and bobbing to and fro, he was a bit of a chatterbox on the mic"

Empusa · 19/09/2012 21:35

"However, the Chief Constable and other senior police officers should consider their words."

So you think they should avoid using the very words the friends/family have used?

SigmundFraude · 19/09/2012 21:39

'However, the Chief Constable and other senior police officers should consider their words.'

Wow. I think they did consider their words didn't they? Weren't they reading out words given to them?

You know, not everyone views the world through a feminist lens, and sometimes it's completely inappropriate to do so, as this thread shows.

Not everyone thinks 'chatterbox', 'gentle' and 'girls' are offensive. You should accept others right to not be offended by words that you deem offensive. It's the fact that you can't that puts people's backs up. Just because you feel strongly that you are right, it doesn't mean that you are.

atacareercrossroads · 19/09/2012 21:39

I think the objective was actually to discover what happens if you vomit onto a keyboard leith

limitedperiodonly · 19/09/2012 21:40

empusa It is the job of a Chief Constable to tick all kinds of boxes. The boxes he doesn't tick tell me something about him for good or for ill.

bupcakes I'm glad you like me. I like you very much too. But we disagree here.

Sir Peter's statement was inept and cliched. And I repeat, what is he going to say when someone asks him why he's putting bubbly young chatterboxes into a situation that requires tact and maturity?

I know what he's going to do. He's going to ignore it and people are going to let him off out of a misplaced sense of propriety for the victims and an unwillingness to discuss it.

These officers didn't have a chance because this man wanted to kill them and then give himself up to an easy life in prison as a celebrated cop-killer. What a brave man Hmm. But that's not how it will be seen amongst people who share his values and you will never stop it by trying to humanise police officers with kind words. These people don't care.

The only chance you have of making these criminals understand and making the public understand the terrifying job ordinary people who happen to be in uniform do is by championing their professionalism and skill. Not sentimentalising them. Sentiments can come at the funerals and for the years afterwards by people who know them.

I lost my post there and this thread is moving quickly so:

QLB the Chief Constable should know all the implications. If you can't understand that then I can't explain it. I'm sorry. And for the last time I'm going to explain to you that no one should make up quotes. That really is very important to me. Possibly more than it is to you. But I'm just guessing.

LBE I'm not a RadFem or Orwellian and I don't have an agenda, just a point of view that you don't share. That's okay. Actually, I understand Orwellian to mean not questioning the received view, so you might want to look that up. I've explained many times why it is offensive to be described as a chatterbox in a professional or private context so we'll agree to disagree, if you don't mind.

BupcakesandCunting · 19/09/2012 21:41

Her usual objective, Leith. To rile people up.

BupcakesandCunting · 19/09/2012 21:46

Limited, none of you who are slating the CC are acknowledging the fact that he DID acknowledge that they were exemplary policewomen? He mentioned that colleagues liked being partnered with Fiona Bone as she had a calm demeanour which helped defuse situations, as well as the quote I hightlighted just now.

So he did strike a balance. He used quotes from the family and talked about their work. We should remember that he has lost two colleagues and he had to make a very emotional statement very soon after. I think that he did an excellent job in this.

I think that this should have been posted in feminism, tbh. It's really upsetting and the people being most vociferous about being in agreement with the OP are being very cold-hearted and robotic.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 19/09/2012 21:46

empusa all those examples have pejorative connotations.
My dad was a police officer and had he been killed in action at 32 and been described as a "lad" or "boy" I would not have thought it appropriate.
They were not "girls", they were police officers.

Empusa · 19/09/2012 21:50

"And I repeat, what is he going to say when someone asks him why he's putting bubbly young chatterboxes into a situation that requires tact and maturity?"

I'd assume he'd point out that the two aren't mutually exclusive Hmm

Or maybe he'd refer to the things said in his statement that weren't quotes from the family/friends. Eg. "brave", "courageous", "exemplified all that is best in British policing"

Original poster
seeker · 19/09/2012 21:51

"Her usual objective, Leith. To rile people up."

If that had been my objective, then obviously I succeeded. But it wasn't.

OP posts:
BupcakesandCunting · 19/09/2012 21:52

It just seems like that sometimes, seeker. If it wasn't your intention to rile, then one must assume that you're just incredibly thoughtless.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 19/09/2012 21:54

So we're down to strong adjectives here. Hmm

squeakytoy · 19/09/2012 21:54

"And I repeat, what is he going to say when someone asks him why he's putting bubbly young chatterboxes into a situation that requires tact and maturity?"

I would imagine he would look at them with the disgust that questioning his comment deserves. And I would applaud him for doing so.

BupcakesandCunting · 19/09/2012 21:54

""And I repeat, what is he going to say when someone asks him why he's putting bubbly young chatterboxes into a situation that requires tact and maturity?"

Who is going to ask him that? I feel pretty safe in assuming that beyond this thread, no-one is dissecting it too much.

IRCL · 19/09/2012 21:54

YABVVVU.

My OH is gentle and he is also a chatterbox, he never stops! So yeah actually I can imagine men being called these names!

Not important in the grand scheme of things really is it?

Original poster
seeker · 19/09/2012 21:58

"I think that this should have been posted in feminism, tbh. It's really upsetting and the people being most vociferous about being in agreement with the OP are being very cold-hearted and robotic."

Or, in my case, trying very hard not to respond to the personal abuse, because i think the issue is more important than my feelings. I apologise for sounding cold hearted and robotic- I am not. It's because I want these women to be remembered and honoured properly that I have managed not to descend to the gutter. As some others have.

OP posts:
OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere · 19/09/2012 21:58

I am really not understanding the 'livid' 'disgusting' 'mumsnet at its worst'

I would if it was about being horrible about these poor women. If it was denigrating them or speculating on their private lives (like tons of threads I have seen on recently deceased people right here, on MN).

Its about affording them due respect.

How is that disgusting? Why is it?

Why are people going on about being politically correct?

I don't know what Seeker's agenda is or what her motivation is.

Speaking for myself I would like these professional and dedicated, brave women to be treated with the respect they deserve.

I am really not getting all the hysterics about daring to talk about the language used to describe them.

LadyBeagleEyes · 19/09/2012 22:00

No, to me Orwellian means there is only one way to think, and as far as I'm concerned with Radical Feminism that is it.
You can't veer from the 'party' view.
A woman can't be chatty, kind, gentle, or ever be described as such, even if they were much loved, and that was actually the way they were viewed by their families and colleagues.
No they have to be remembered as brave, strong professional women.
Otherwise their deaths were in vain, after all we can't have chatterboxes and gentle people dying in the cause of duty, can we?
Because they weren't real women.
According to everybody that knew them though, they were human.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere · 19/09/2012 22:00

AND I would hardly describe myself and 'cold hearted and robotic' Really?

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere · 19/09/2012 22:02

I have had a fucking nuff.
Radfem
Owellian
cold and robotic.

Yeah thats me, down to a tee.
Because I hold a different view.

Clytaemnestra · 19/09/2012 22:03

"Sir Peter said: ?When she first joined the shift she was quite quiet and reserved. However she came out of her shell and had a great sense of humour, always enjoying a good laugh.

?She was so happy with her partner and they were in the middle of planning their wedding. Indeed her partner only spoke to her this morning about the wedding invites and fellow officers gave her advice about how to make them on the computer.

?Her fellow officers said that they always loved being partnered off with her as she was always calm, collected and professional, and could defuse situations with her calm, gentle way. She was an excellent bobby, and cared about her job, and the community she served."

Genuinely, how can you read that, and of all of it, all of that heartbreaking detail, the thing that stands out to you is "How dare he say she was GENTLE. They wouldn't say that about a man."

Since when was gentle even a perjurative term?