To be angry with my parents telling me that my children are "wild and out of control"?

[Traceymac2]

I am a mum to 3 girls of 17 wks, 2 yrs and 4 yrs. I no longer live in the UK so don't see my family very often.
My dh has been away on a business trip for the last 2 wks so my parents came to help me with my dd's, they also haven't seen them for nearly a year.
The night before they were due to leave my mother told me that my dd's were wild and out of control and that i need to do something about it. I became very upset by this, it is simply not true. My dd1 can be a bit stroppy and challenging at times of late, usually when she is tired or bored. My 2 yr old also can be stroppy when tired, can be quite stubborn if she doesnt want to do something and they do fight over toys which often ends in tears. These behaviours don't happen all of the time and they both have very endearing aspects to their personalities too. To me this is normal behaviour of children of this age, they are no different to my friends dcs from what I can see. I said that it is not acceptable to say such things to me about my children. She told me it needed to be said. I disagreed and she told me she would tell anyone the same if necessary. They said that they are already acting like unruly teenagers and that my skills as a parent need to be questioned. I feel like they have labelled them as "bad" and thats it. My father was very authoritarian in his approach to parenting, neither myself or my siblings have good memories of him from our childhood. He shouted at my 4 dd on this visit to "stop behaving like an animal" when she held a piece of plain spagetti against the wall in a cafe. Ok she shouldn't have done it but I simply will not speak to them like this. I am not an absent parent by any means but I don't them living in fear of me. The upshot of all of this was that they decided to leave there and then, a day early stating they were no longer welcome. I haven't spoken to them since as I am so upset with them and I am not sure that this can be resolved as I feel they have gone to far this time. Am I being unreasonable?

Yanbu.

They call this helping?

oh gawd!-i dont know?

do you usually respect their opinion?

do you have a 3rd party you could ask for opinion?

is it possible the truth lies in the middle somewhere?

It's hard to say whether you're being unreasonable without knowing your kids really.

What I would say though is that as parents we do find it difficult to hear any kind of criticism about our kids, whether it's warranted or not.

Perhaps your Mum felt that if she can't mention their behaviour to you, then who can?

I understand how it must have upset your though

I think it's very difficult to say from what you've written whether your parenting is top notch or could use some tweaking - you'd need to give some more examples (though please don't feel you have to!).

But what is pretty plain is that your parents are wankers. Even if your mother's concerns are genuine, she broached them in such a rude and completely unhelpful way it's hard not to feel her main intention was making you feel bad, not helping you parent better. Your dad is worse still - at least you're an adult. Shouting at a 4 year old? And how are you supposed to parent if he barges in and starts insulting your kids before you handle the situation?

I think their main problem is twofold - they have forgotten what small children are like (loud and chaotic in comparison to their empty nest), and they are unable to see any way other than their way as correct.

I think you are very lucky they live so far away.

neither myself or my siblings have good memories of him from our childhood

Just to say, this ^^ means I would completely discount whatever he has to say about parenting. All his children have bad memories of his behaviour? Yeah, he's not an authority on parenting.

Wot Worra said.
Not nice to hear, but maybe there is an element of truth......?
Difficult to say as none of us know your dcs.

You're obviously upset about it and that's perfectly understandable. You would naturally be upset if your parents unjustly criticised your children for just doing what children do. You would also probably be upset if your parents were right about your children's behaviour. I think most of us do our best and it's hard to hear negative comments from anybody. I just keep telling myself that none of us are perfect - believe me, I've made plenty of mistakes in my time being a parent.

It's difficult for anyone on here to make a judgement really, though, to be honest.

The only thing I would say is, IF there really is a problem (which I am NOT saying there is - I can't possibly know that) then perhaps it's as well to sort it out now before they start school. That is just possibly why your parents actually said something, albeit perhaps not in the best manner.

Thanks guys. I can accept negative feedback if I think it is fair. My dds teacher in playschool has at times told me that my older dd has not listened to her, done what she was told etc, and handled it accordingly which i have no problem accepting but they really aren't ASBO candidates! Just little children with lots of energy. They can be difficult at times but that is to be expected with their ages or so I thought.

The thing is, if they want to make you a better parent, the way to do that is to spend two weeks helping you and offering constructive advice at relevant moments (which should be numerous if your kids are "wild and out of control").

Ambushing you on the last night and calling your kids names is not helpful. It's nasty. Walking out because you disagree is also manipulative and nasty.

Sorry I only noticed your second-to-last sentence now. I wouldn't be rushing to mend bridges over this.

Am I reading too much into what you wrote or do they have a history of unreasonable and manipulative behaviour? Are all of your siblings still on good or at least speaking terms with them?

I wouldn't worry unduly.

My mother told me I spoil my youngest, & she had a point - I'm more relaxed third time round, so less likely to pounce on every little thing, & also she doesn't have a younger one taking over much of my attention, which her older siblings did at the same age.

It made me eye dd2 & our relationship a bit, & realise yes, I was letting her get away with quite a lot. My parents also only see them a couple of times a year, so they had a 'snapshot view' of my relationship with each dc at a similar age, whereas I hadn't noticed that I was being more indulgent towards dd2 because I interact with all 3 of them every day.

HOWEVER. Your parents have probably forgotten what small dc are like, you don't have good memories of their parenting, they were inappropriate & belittling in how they raised their 'concerns', & they then flounced out, thereby acting like spoilt children themselves.

So I'd take with a sack or two of salt tbh.

"My dds teacher in playschool has at times told me that my older dd has not listened to her, done what she was told etc"

So your parents have a point then. Teachers don't waste time telling parents things like this unless the children concerned are frequently badly behaved.

My father has always been a very dominant figure in the family and has caused a lot of problems over the years as he is very intolerant of his children and laid down lots of rules in the house, it was never a welcoming place to be. As a result we all react/over react emotionally to any kind of conflict or critiscism within the family unit. My brother is barely on speaking terms with either of my parents and my sister has had major fall outs too. It's very sad really and I don't want to recreate that in my own family but do want to bring them up well all the same.

I do ask regularly about my dd's behaviour in play school when I collect her and she has been fine recently. It was only talking when she was talking or not following instructions but nothing major. No fighting or being cheeky.

you do sound like the type of parent that says my children can do no wrong. Mabey your judgement is clouded as your their mum, try looking at it objectively.

Hmm, your parents probably agonised over saying anything to you, because they'd know what the consequences would be, so I do think that there is probably some truth in what they say.

You live abroad - do you live in an ex pat community? When I did, I couldn't believe how badly behaved a lot of the children were, so maybe your view is skewed by the behavior of the other children...

Do you have a good friend whose opinion you could get?

If you have such a fraught and negative relationship with your father then inviting him and your mother to stay for a week was a really bad idea. A lot of parents, even good ones, don't like to see their children parenting differently to them as they see it as criticism. If you parents took a very strict approach that you feel was damaging then I don't think it's wise to listen to any of their "advice."

If you're in any way worried about your children's behaviour then choose a friend whose opinion you trust and ask him/her to tell you honestly if there's anything that you seem to be doing wrong.

Did you tell your DD off about the spaghetti?

Do you discipline your children at all after any incidents of fighting, if you do then they ABU, if you don't then they may have a point.

It's a bit daft to suggest that small children are behaving like teenagers when they are behaving like small children. I suspect that this is more of a parenting difference. Your parents went for strict discipline and you are not. The consequence may be more episodes of unruliness now but hopefully a happier childhood and better relationships.

I think it's also very hard to hear criticism from our parents, especially of our children as I think it can be easy to forget that our parents don't love their grandchildren in quite the same way that we love our children.

It doesn't sound like you'd be losing anything particularly valuable if you seriously reduced contact with your parents.

I know my kids can be naughty at times and I am no way deluded as far as that is concerned. I do discipline them, use the naughty step and take away treats. Image them apologise afterwards and explain why they shouldn't have done whatever they did. I just don't think they are any worse than any other child of pre school age which is one of the reasons I was so upset.
I told my dd that we would leave the cafe if she didn't behave, sit down and eat her lunch.
I had coffee at a friends house for 2 1/2 hrs yesterday while my dd2 played with her ds. There were no fights, they played nicely together, my friend felt they were exaggerating. I don't live in an expat community and would never tolererate truly bad behaviour, that's why I check with the play school to make sure dd1 is behaving. You have a point when you say that it was a bad idea having my parents to stay with the history of our relationship, my dh, who is the calmest and most level headed person I know said it was a bad idea from the start. He also feels that what they said was wrong and inappropriate.

I can't really comment on your children, but I know at a similar age my mother made comments about how I had my hands full, and how 'lively' mine were etc etc. I imagine they still have the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' view. Also both my mother and sister only had two children with larger age gaps.

Fast forward a few years, mine are now 7.5, 5.5 and nearly 3. Recently they commented on how nicely behaved mine all were, how well they played together, how nice it was for them to have company of a similar age.

We do do things differently to how my parents and PIL did. FIL still finds it hard to accept that children can chatter at the table for example. We do it differently because of our memories, which is probably why you do things differently, you don't want your children having the same misery you did. The main thing you need to examine is whether you are going too far the other way.

I live by two guidelines in behaviour management-
'don't accept behaviour in a 4yr old that you won't want in a 14yr old' (obviously punishment will be different but if you don't want a 14yr old puttinng spaghetti on walls in cafe then tell a 4yr off for. Doing it - can apply to 2yr old too)

Secondly try to always be 'firm but fair' so in that situation an appropriate approach might be to move them next to you and warn them that another behaviour like that and you will have to leave cafe early before pudding. I don't smack mine, and also try not to give OTT reactions e.g no pudding for a week.

You could e-mail them and say that you have bad memories of your childhood so want to do things differently but that you will monitor your children's behaviour, or you could ignore and in a few years they will probably be better with some consistent parenting - which you might already be doing.

You say in your first post that "I don't want them living in fear of me". You still need to be an authoritative parent, and perhaps you need to look at whether your unhappy memories of a authoritarian father are leading you to be too lenient.

(Not saying this is the case, because as others have said, we can't really tell from here)

Do your parents have other GCs that they spend time with? If not, and they haven't seen yours for a year, then it may be that they have struggled to get used to what could seem like noisy chaos when in reality it's just kids being kids.

Some older people take children in their stride, especially if they are used to being around them and others don't. Sounds as if your DF has always struggled, even with his own, which is why he over-disciplines. My BiL is like this.

No need to have a proper falling out over it though - the fact that you live abroad should mean that it's not a big issue - neither side is having to deal with the issues on a day to day basis.

Do your children use paragraphs? I have a headache now

I haven't read anything here that makes me think your children are wild, out if control or badly behaved.

I also have parents like this. They told me that "it seems anything goes!" "there ARE no rules for that child!" when he was aged 1. This was because I did not shout at him or slap him for touching the lights on their play station, only removed him.

I think a certain kind of parent ie your and mine op forget what parenting small children is actually like and have ridiculously high expectations of their behaviour. Combine that with our more sensitive (ie not slapping and shouting) parenting and you'll get what you got on the last night. If your parents are anything like mine they would have loved the disapproval and discussed it endlessly between themselves when alone.

I think it's very telling that your other siblings have little to do with them and quite frankly your Dad sounds like an arsehole. My parents would have stormed off and refused to talk to me too, in fact they didn't speak to me or see my child for over a year after a similar incident as you describe. Everything you describe reminds me of them and I don't think it's you or your dc that's the problem here.

I put up with years of bullying from my parents but there is something about having your own kids that suddenly gives you the strength to say NO to it. Which is what I think you did and good for you.