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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think we need to do a U turn in our attitudes to disabled mothers?

107 replies

airforceone · 13/09/2012 14:53

I have a daughter. I also have a disability that has left me largely in a wheelchair. The two came together. I never had the opportunity to choose whether or not to have a child despite the disability. People's attitudes seem to soften up when I explain this. I couldn't understand it at all until I read about a recent survey showing that about a quarter of people in the UK think disabled people shouldn't be parents. I thought it was a wind-up at first.

What are people thinking when they see me out and about with my little girl?

It's hard enough to be managing a toddler from a wheelchair. Much harder to think that I'm being judged for having a child at all, by people who will never know that my child receives a much richer experience of life than she would ever have had without a disabled parent.

If a quarter of people are thinking this way, does that mean that every fourth person I meet is privately of the opinion that our family should never have happened? And that we are a drain on the state?

Am I being unreasonable...or are is quarter in the survey?

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 19:21

"There are examples of parents who are disabled who cannot care for their children"

Manic's example was a woman who was raped as she did not have the capacity to consent. She didn't decide to become a parent.

She should have been protected.

Jenny70 · 13/09/2012 19:22

I think the survey probably "lead" the responders to the amswers they wanted, and certainly the misunderstandings here show how different terms are interpretted.

Of course some people shouldn't have children - but most not because of a chromosome or physical disability, most should't be parents because they are selfish prats... but who gets to decide? Who draws this line? There is no test, no min standard...

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour · 13/09/2012 19:30

Absolutely birds. I also think there is a huge difference between 'shouldn't be allowed to have children' (obviously you couldn't stop that anyway) and 'shouldn't be allowed to continue parenting their children'

In my own case the disability came along with the children anyway so it is a moot point, but whereas I would strongly strongly disagree that I shouldn't have had children I do accept that without a lot of help I would not be able to parent them well. I am so severely disabled that if my DH were to leave me I would not be able to look after my dc

But there are also plenty of parents who are not disabled that are unable to parent well yet in their cases it is not assumed but each case taken individually

manicinsomniac · 13/09/2012 19:32

On phone and running late so will return later to try and address upset I have caused to Sammy.

Just wanted to clear up rape confusion though. Please don't think I was trying to ne sensationalist, I wasn't talking about rape. As far as I know the woman was in a loving relationship with a man who has, I think, downs syndrome, or some other sld. It wasn't as bad as I obviously made it sound, sorry!

Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 19:35

People do hold these views. Many think that because the family may need the imput of services, it is a selfish act.

But that is because they do not think deeply about how very few of us to act in a way that ensures, we need as little support from the public purse as possible.

Fishwife1949 · 13/09/2012 19:37

Re disabled mums ....i think as long as the child or children will not be become or used as carers i dont see the issue their is an artist who has no hands and she is a fab mum she was featured on child of our time

But on the flip side i did watch a documentary years back about a blind couple and they really were not coping and the children were their carers the whole thing was just sad and the most wful thing is they refused ss help which would of freed the children from carering .

amybelle1990 · 13/09/2012 19:37

:O some of the attitudes that have come up recently about disabled people make my blood run cold

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19589602

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19570364

I'm sure there are a lot of disabled people that are in no position to raise a child due to their condition, but for so many people in this survey to respond like this to such a general question is appalling.

Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 19:39

If the woman has a mental age of 7 then she should be protected from pregnancy by her support workers.

New guidelines came in years ago to allow this, there was a test case where a mum wanted her daughter with Down's and severe LD's to have a hysterectomy.

As far as I know

So this isn't a case that you know first hand? It shouldn't be mentioned then, if you don't know the facts.

HappyMummyOfOne · 13/09/2012 19:41

I think as long as the person can care adequately and provide for the child then its not relevant if they have a disability.

I think people dont like to see children being carers so maybe thats why there are negative comments. Some children have to miss out on lots of things and do the role of an adult with no choice in the matter.

Fishwife1949 · 13/09/2012 19:43

Birdsgottaflysadly birds as you must know this seldom happens many of the children in care have parents who have very low IQ sw are powerless to make these parents use protection.

Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 19:45

But on the flip side i did watch a documentary years back about a blind couple and they really were not coping and the children were their carers the whole thing was just sad and the most wful thing is they refused ss help which would of freed the children from carering

I know the documentary, there has been new laws in and around child carers and adult carers, especially in the case of refusal by the disabled person for an assessment.

Adult services are underfunded, if they were better funded, it would cost less money in the long run.

Services for child carers is one that has faced cuts. It's a tough one when it comes to child carers because i know families where the girls are expected to do most of the housework.

Some children do as much as any carer who have able bodied parents.

Fishwife1949 · 13/09/2012 19:45

HappyMummyOfOne agreed

greenplastictrees · 13/09/2012 19:46

If I was to see you out with your daughter it probably wouldn't even register. Not in a nasty way but in a 'there's another parent/nanny/aunty/(other person who may be with child) with their child'.

Honestly op, it wouldn't even occur to me question the fact that you have a child. I honestly believe that most people would feel the same. Your disability wouldn't even come into it at all.

Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 19:50

Birdsgottaflysadly birds as you must know this seldom happens many of the children in care have parents who have very low IQ sw are powerless to make these parents use protection.

I mean that the woman should have been protected, from ever getting pregnant, the guidelines allow for this.

If she has the capacity of a seven year old, she won't be living independantly.

But this was told to Manic second hand, she didn't say that from the start.

Women who lack capacity do not come into this discussion, as the only way to prevent pregnancy would be to reopen the institutions, or practice eugenics.

TruthSweet · 13/09/2012 19:56

I have epilepsy and when I had my first DD I went into work to show her off - my manager expressed surprise I was allowed to be at home with her by myself. As far as she was concerned, I shouldn't be allowed to hold her or tend to her needs, I should have had a SW/HV (Confused) to do all caring duties for her and then when DH came home he would take over.

Needless to say I do all caring duties for my children (when DH is at work) unless I am incapacitated by a seizure and then I have my DH/mum/MIL to help out until I am ready to resume those duties. Works for my family.

DidYouSmashHerShireHorses · 13/09/2012 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

airforceone · 13/09/2012 20:14

DidYouSmashHerShireHorses You've got me in tears. That is a very beautiful post and so honouring to your mother. What an amazing woman! I'm so sorry for your loss.

OP posts:
BlackberryIce · 13/09/2012 20:16

I also think that opinions centre around money

All the associated costs, extra requirements? Perhaps this is the way people are thinking?

MummytoKatie · 13/09/2012 20:29

Have people seen "I am Sam". Brilliant film about bloke with learning disabilities that meant he had a developmental age of 7 and a daughter who was just turning 8.

It really made me think - not least because I wasn't sure of my own views. In the end he was able to keep parenting her (he was a single father) but had lots of support from others.

The thing is that there must be a point where impairment means you cannot parent effectively but I don't know what it is.

Manic - presumably this is what you had in mind as well?

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 13/09/2012 20:35

Barnados wrote a white paper concerned with the increase of children being taken into care based on mothers (or parents I think) being disabled.

In the last year I've been referred to children's services 7+ times for 'help' as adult services don't want to pay to help me... Children's services don't help disabled parents, & that route is tantamount to saying disabled parent = bad parent. My ds is an amazing, loved, secure & well attached little boy, & developing well. No one can say he doesn't have a good mum cos I am damn certain to make sure I am... But I still need help & that does NOT make me a bad mother.

The bad parent in my sons case has to be the perfectly able bodied H who walked out on his baby & wife when I became disabled.

Astonishes me that people believe they have a right to decide on MY patenting skills because my body turns out to be crap, yet other people are allowed to be as rubbish as they like as long as they are able bodied.

That's called discrimination, & there is alot about :(

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 13/09/2012 20:40

By the way, on another forum I have found a lady (yes, a disabled mum shock horror!) who is v proactive & wants to set up something where disabled parents can exchange parenting equipment when we've finished using it... I think it's a great idea & I wanted to share it as I figure there are some disabled parents reading this thread.

Sorry if it's not appropriate to share it here but I am really into the idea of disabled parents becoming a supportive group - I've not met one except online (except myself of course!). Please ignore :)

altinkum · 13/09/2012 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

weegiemum · 13/09/2012 21:09

I'm a disabled mum of 3. Following an ear infection last December I had an extreme immunological response and the nerves in my legs below the knee, hands, forearms and lower face were severely damaged and in my feet and hands they are totally dead. The numbness ebbs and flows depending on my monthly IV infusions, I also have a severe balance problem and can't figure out where m hands and feet are when they are out of my vision (th best way I can describe it is that if I close my eyes, I "miss" when I clap my hands!).

I walk slowly, unsteadily like a toddler. I use a wheelchair for long distances. I find fine tasks like chopping, sewing, writing.

It's been amazing to see people's reactions! A large minority refuse to believe me, with ridiculous responses like "ah well, you never know what's round the corner", or "I know God is going to heal you", or "but you look so well !".

I get a lot of people feeling sorry for my children. Dd1 is 12, in first year at high school. Ds is 10 in primary6, dd2 is 8 in primary5. What most of these people don't know is that I also have borderline personality disorder, which has been successfully controlled by an amazing clinical psychology team, and I came off all my medication (antipsychotics and antidepressants) about this time last year. And despite being seriously ill in hospital (I ate so little I lost 6 stone, which to be honest I needed to lose :) ) and becoming physically disabled, it's never come back. I still see my psychologist monthly and will do so for the forseeable future.

I was actually much, much more disabled by the crushing depression that I am by the CIDP I now suffer from. I'm still working, teaching young mums basic literacy and numeracy and storytelling skills with their children. I do it from a wheelchair, and I find there is no-one more "disability blind" than a toddler. To my wee buddies I see each week, I'm just weegie who reads stories.

People have commented that my dc are very self sufficient and independent and it's often said with a very obvious subtext of "are they your carers?". They're not! I have a personal assistant comes twice a week on my days off and she does the stuff I can't: heavy housecleaning, chops boxes of onions for me to cook, sews on guide and brownie and scout badges, fills in school forms if dh is away (he's a doctor and works away overnight 2 nights a week). Dh does the personal care I can't (mainly toenails!! :) ).

My kids can do loads. Dd1 is great at baking, sewing, making cards for people's birthdays. She's also good at lifting hot dishes out of the oven (I can't feel temperature). Ds makes the best meatballs and spaghetti, dd2 does fruit salads, cupcakes and making decorations (we already have a box full of bats for Halloween!). They can all take care of making a packed lunch, folding laundry, looking after the pets, loading and unloading the dishwasher, hanging clothes out. And you know what? If I was the most able bodied mum in the world theyd still do that, because tkin turns to help and learning life skills is what family life and growing up is about. Dd1 does my nails and hair, she loves that, the only thing she sometimes does for me that's out of the ordinary is fasten my bra!!

I think I was making a point but I've forgotten it!!

I'm as good a parent disabled, even better than I was when able-bodied.

Birdsgottafly · 13/09/2012 21:10

"Children's services don't help disabled parents, & that route is tantamount to saying disabled parent = bad parent."

It doesn't.

People need to change their thinking in regards to SS involvement.

It is so frustrating as a SW that this is still the case.

Sometimes SS just makes up for a lack of a helpful family, those that have that don't understand what it is like to cope alone.

Children services direct support to families that have idenified that they need support, rather than those who are in denial about the effect on the children.

Children and Famly services wants families to work as well as they can, that should be everyone's aim,not to point the finger.

It isn't that we need more help 'these days', it is just that we now think that children have the right to participate in society equally (in theory). That is why ECM came into effect.

weegiemum · 13/09/2012 21:11

Oops that was a long, involved, self indulgent post.

That didn't make any points!

Sorry :(