Please give me some outside perspective. Very long I'm afraid!

[happy2bhomely]

I am going to write this so I can show my mum the replies. Please would you offer your honest opinions? I will try to just give the facts, not the why's and where's etc!

Background....
My mum and Dad were married for 20 years and had 5 children together.

My mum started a relationship with another man before divorcing my Dad.

The man (M) was still married and had 2 children. M and his wife also divorced.

My mum and (M) have been in a relationship for over 10 years now.

After they divorced, mum was living in a council house, working in a minimum wage job. M was renting privately waiting for his house to be sold. He was earning around 50k.

The situation now....

Mum is working as a care worker earning just over minimum wage. M is still earning 50k. All children have left home and mum is still living in council house and M is living in a 2 bed house. He paid off the mortgage with inheritance from his mum. Mum is finding it hard to afford her house. She gets no help with rent or council tax. They would like to live together. M doesn't want to move into mums because it was her family home with my dad.

It is a 'proper' relationship in the sense that they have shared friends, spend time with each others families. Babysit grandchildren together, holiday together etc. It is not a casual relationship.

M has asked mum to live with him. They have spent lots of time at each others homes but never officially lived together. So far, the arrangements have been that they pay their own household bills, rent, mortgage etc and go half on absolutely everything else. So, if they go for a drink, they buy one round each. Halves on restaurant bills. Halves on takeaways etc. They have had many holidays together. (M travels as part of his job and mum gets to tag along often, at her own expense) She has never, ever taken anything from him other than small birthday/Christmas presents. She cooks for him, does his washing and housework etc.

M is disappointed that my mum doesn't earn more than she does. He feels it limits what they can do together because she can't always afford her half. If she can't afford it, they don't do it. Mum is left with nothing every month. M is left with enough to live very comfortably and save a significant amount.

Mum has been diagnosed with a problem with her spine. She has a prolapsed disk in her neck and has arthritis. She is 49. She still works full time, but has regular risk assessments and meetings with occupational health. She is on pain medication but is still in considerable pain most days. There is some concern about how much longer she can keep doing the job that she does.

M has suggested they live together at his home and wants mum to contribute half of household bills. Mum has tried to discuss what would happen if she finds herself unable to work and so, unable to pay her half. He has been very vague, but has hinted that she would not have a home with him if she couldn't pay. Mum has also tried to discuss what would happen if M was to die before her. Would she be allowed to stay living in his home? M has suggested that she would have to move in with me, because it would be unreasonable to expect his daughters to have to wait for their inheritance until my mum died.

My mum does not want any inheritance from him at all. She has suggested that she pays a smaller percentage towards household bills to allow her to save for the future. She thinks a 50/50 split is unfair. Apparently my mum is 'thick' and 'alarm bells are ringing' about my mums true motives. She 'has her eyes on his money.' M believes, that mum 'had nothing' when he met her and that is not his responsibility. He says he has worked hard for what he has.

My mum does not want a penny. She just wants to share a home with a the man she loves, with some security that she would not be made homeless if he died. If they seperate, she accepts that she would walk away with nothing.

Do you think I am being unreasonable to suggest to my mum that there is no future with this man? AIBU to suggest that she downsizes her council home to one more affordable and forgets any idea of ever sharing a home with M?

AIBU to think that M is a dick who doesn't really want a proper relationship with my mum at all?

If you have got to the end, thank you for reading!

What a horrible attitude after 10 years!!! He is happy for her to be his skivvy but doesn't see it as an equal relationship.

Your Mum deserves to much better, run for the hills.

I doubt that OP's mum would be entitled to DLA at the moment given what I assume is the physical nature of her work. It does sound like downsizing might be the answer to money worries.

I think giving up the right to a council house would be a mistake in these circumstances. I think it's entirely appropriate that each party to a relationship contributes equally to it, but that means different things to different people. I wouldn't necessarily say that there should be a proportional split of the bills in line with income, but a 50:50 split with OP's mum doing the bulk of the housework must be wrong. A 50:50 split of the bills will not give OP's mum any rights to his house given that the mortgage has been paid off.

I think the worst thing is his appalling attitude towards her. I can't see what she'd gain by living with him.

This guy is a twat, but sadly a twat your mum is in love with. Has there never been talk of marriage at all? Sounds a bit casual, even though you say it's not.

Oh poor mum.
I don't think YABU in suggesting that she takes some control of her own finances and maybe downsizes her home if that frees up some money for her to be more comfortable. From what you say "m" is not willing to support her so she can't depend on him if things get tricky.

I can only assume there's something about their relationship that your mum finds rewarding but maybe it would be better if she remains independent.

In any case it might be worth her while taking some legal advice and find out what rights she might have if they live together (in common law for example), so she doesn't become homeless in the event of being unable to make a financial contribution to the household.

She could raise her income straightway if she invoiced him for all the cooking, cleaning and ironing; say 2 hours a day, at 7 pounds an hour - that's nearly a hundred quid a week.

Totally agree with other posts , she absolutely should not give up the security of her council house. If he wants an equal relationship, they could consider marriage or adding her to the house ownership deeds as tenants in common with unequal shares so that she can 'buy into ' the house. Sadly , it sounds like he just wants an unpaid housekeeper to split the bills and have sex with.

Inertia: Excellent idea re: invoicing for chores.

He is meaner than Scrooge, and is also a liar, since he is saying "50:50" but your mother is paying out far more than he is, not only proportionate to their incomes, but also in absolute terms , given her domestic help, lost opportunities and the toll on her health from living (and toiling ) like this.

However, the stubbornness she's displayed in keeping to his false "50:50" doesn't make her a mug of any kind - don't let her be despondent! - that stubbornness has kept her from ending up vulnerable to him, as previous posters have noted.

It's clearly best for your mother not to end up at his mercy...

I agree with the others who said she shouldn't give up her council house. Having a secure tenancy is a security she won't get again; even if the relationship broke down later/M died and she was allocated a council tenancy again (which may not happen anyway if she willingly gave up her council house), the tenancy terms would be very different and the rent could be even higher. There are lots of changes going on with council tenancies right now.

I left my council flat to move in with DH's owned house, but I always made it clear that I wouldn't move in with him until we were married, as it would be unfair for me to give up that security. I think your DM is being a bit of a martyr by insisting on paying 50/50 or walking away with nothing though (even if M has probably influenced her thinking here). DH has almost always paid for treats, nights out because he's always earned far more than me and it makes more sense than limiting our activities to things that I can afford to go halves on.

If she wants to downsize (which is a good idea), I'd encourage her to register on homeswap websites and not just make an application to the council. You can get a bit more choice and look at a wider area, and give more information about your home to make it more attractive to swappers. In my area, you'd probably be pounced on if you wanted to move from a 2 bed house to a 1 bed - always lots of families crammed into tiny place who need to upsize. You'd probably get homes that are in nicer areas/better condition as well - plenty of people are willing to give these up for an extra bedroom.

Has your mum checked her benefits situation to make sure she's getting everything she's entitled to? She should get a single person's discount on Council Tax, she might get HB on min wage as well and possibly working tax credits.

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all the replies. I showed them to my mum. She said that if M was to post with his version of events then he would get support too.

Things have come to a head anyway. They had a massive argument and have split. They have split before though.

She has told me some things and I can't believe she would still want to be with him.

For example, they went to Tesco and he got himself some drinks. My mum picked up some ibuprofen and he paid for his drinks and made her pay for her value painkillers separately.

He expensed his meals while they were away and she paid for her own.

She was struggling to get up a hill while they were away and he told her she wasn't a pretty sight, huffing and puffing up the hill.

He has said that he wouldn't let her live in his house after he died because she might move a new partner in. She wouldn't.

His divorce ended with a 60/40 split in his wife's favour. He is very bitter about it.

I've told her that if you can't see a future where he might push you uphill in a wheelchair and buy you a cuppa, then it's not love. M would say, "why didn't you think of this and save some money to buy an electric one. It's not my responsibility."

I took her out to see a show last night. I paid. She said thank you at least 5 times.

I wish he would just fuck off for good.

When I first got together with my now DH we kept our finances separate for quite a while. The difference is that I owned my small flat so when I moved in with him I rented it out and it would always have been there for me to go back to.

When we knew the relationship was working we got married and I sold my flat.

So, I would say there's nothing wrong with keeping finances separate if that's what you want (particuarly later in life when there are children from previous relationships etc) BUT your mum is not in a position to be financially independent if she gives up her council home and moves in with him because the state will see her as part of a couple not an individual single person so she just can't move in with him if he won't share.

Tell your mum 'well done' for being so sensible with this.

Quick whilst they've split get her out there dating some decent men!!!!

Let her experience some good company with someone who isn't tight.

Sadly it seems she's just moved from one abusive relationship to another.

Do you think she stays because she's frightened of being alone?

Having every last drop of confidence sapped from you would make you feel very vulnerable.

Or is it a case of guilt in that them being together broke up 2 marriages therefore she has to make it feel like it was worth it iyswim?

Fwiw I think M's XW has got the best deal out of all this!

op your mum is too young to be in this situation. Sadly nothing you say will change anything, it has to come from her.

Dear OPs Mum I am willing to bet real hard cash if M came on here and posted the he wanted his 'girlfriend' to give up a secure home, do all his housework and pay 50% of all bills despite her earning 80% less than him and he was not willing to look after her if she becomes ill. And if he died first shed be out on her ear.

He'd either be accused of being a troll or he would be solidly rounded on and ripped to shreds(quite rightly too in my opinion)

And that's with him mentioning the travel, the complaining about her job and the basic lack of compassion about her medical condition.

I suppose he has at least defined the perameters of the relationship that he wants
If she doesn't agree and he's not prepared to compromise then it won't work
He does sound like he doesn't care for her and certainly isn't prepared to share a relationship that is equal, or give anything to the relationship
She is still young and hopefully can meet someone who loves her enough to share a life together wholeheartedly and in the true sense of the word

If M posted his version of events here I highly doubt he would be getting any support. She's just had it drummed into her for so long she thinks it's normal :(

I am sure M would get a pasting on here, even if he disguised his gender. I can see no redeeming features in him at all.

Hope your DM is feeling ok.

Smellslike is right - he would get ripped to shreds. Mumsnet is fabulous for honest opinions, no one minces with their words here.

Value iuprofens are less than 40p in most shops. He wouldn't even buy her a 40p pack of painkillers!! He's disgusting.

Time for your mum to build a life without him in it, getting out and about meeting up with people, maybe joining some evening classes or social groups etc. She is still young! My nana is in her 70s and is happily single and independent. She goes to a social club, visits her friends and family, goes on days out with her SIL, etc.

Well he doesn't strike me as a winner but your mum has a lovely daughter. I thought you were very fair in your descriptions of the situation.

I feel sad for your mum as she must not have a very high self worth to be with this man who really doesn't treat her well.

I just cannot imagine expecting a partner to live at a lower standard of living than me. I mean isn't the point of partnership to share? To love? To trust?

I think it would be kind to help your mum protect herself by not moving in with M.

M. Moron?

OP's mum :

If this man truly loved you, he wouldn't be treating you like this. He would pay for your painkillers because he wouldn't want to see you in pain.

He would help you up that hill and suggest a rest halfway because he doesn't want you in pain.

He wouldn't expect you to pay 50/50 for things because he would enjoy treating you to things that you can't afford.

He wouldn't expect you to give up the security of your council tenancy for a very insecure future that would leave you homeless in the event of his death - he would want to ensure you were comfortable when he was gone.

He wouldn't refuse to move near to your children if you need support from them.

He wouldn't look down on the income from your very hard work. He shouldn't be derogatory about it at all. Does a £10 note from your earnings buy less than a £10 note from his earnings? No? Then your work is no less important than his.

He will not ensure that you have a home in the event of his death. In his eyes, you will have performed your duties in caring for him, and in the event of his death, your services will no longer be required. A loving partner would write into his will that after his death, you get to stay in the house until you die. He will not do that.

When a man tells you what he is really like, listen to them. He is telling you that he requires your services, on his terms only, with no compromising on his part, until the event of his death, when you will be surplus to requirements. That is telling you that he sees this as more of a business transaction, almost like your employer but without any wages or benefits other than the company of a selfish tosser.

He does not love you. . He wants the benefits of a relationship like the housework done for him and companionship, without any of the compromises that have to be made in a relationship.

You need to stand firm, exchange your house for a smaller one near to your DC's. If he gets stroppy about that, then he is not worth your time.

Do what is best for YOU. If this man loved you, he would also want what is best for you. Right now it is all about him. What do YOU get from this relationship, except a lot more housework and companionship? Those things aren't worth staying in a bad relationship for.

When he begs for another chance, say no. And if you can't or don't want to say no, then take him back on your terms only, that make the relationship more equal and fair to YOU.

There shouldn't BE a split in costs in a loving relationship, especially after 10 years, there should be a shared pot so a split in costs is irrelevant. It should be household income.

He expects you to run around after him, benefitting him, but would throw you out of your home leaving you homeless if he had to do the same for you?

He wants a carer for the future, not a partner in an equal loving relationship.

You are right to split with him. You do not need to be with a man that treats you like this to be happy. Because he doesn't and won't make you happy, only unhappy, scared for your future, and insecure. You deserve better than that.

And you are NOT old. You are the sane age as one of my closest friends, who goes out clubbing, has friends round for barbecues, goes rock climbing and abseiling, and is currently learning to pilot a helicopter. 49 is NOT old.

My mother and her partner didn't live with eachother for the last 12 years. They have just moved in together in his flat and my mother has given up her council house. They both generally pay their own way for everything. But they have a (legal) agreement that if something happens to him, she can stay in the flat ntil she dies. Because my mum's partner actually loves my mum and doesn't take advantage.

She is feeling like crap.

I think she stays so she feels like she was justified in ending her marriage and the hurt that it caused to both families. She is very bitter towards my dad, because it seems he learned some lessons and is a reformed character. He is very happy now. M's wife is also very happy now with a new partner.

M's wife, when she discovered their affair, told my mum "look after yourself, because he never will" How right she was.

It was obvious from your first post op that's why I hope you didn't mind me asking.

Sometimes being asked the direct question forces you to say the thing you don't want to admit.

It's such a was situation it really is. Of course no one is going to come on here and defend adultery but it was a long time ago.

She shouldn't still be using it as a stick to beat herself with. (and i'm saying this as someone currently divorcing the man that cheated on her)

At some point she has to draw a line under it and move on. She needs to allow herself to be happy.

Until she does that this horrible man will continue to eat away at her life.

We don't get 2 lives. This is it. There's no second go at it. How utterly tragic to punish yourself your whole short life for one wrong doing.

She has to know it really is ok to let it go.

*was = sad.

OP Tell your mum to RUN away.

What a mean, tightfisted piece of shite.

She was justified in ending her marriage because her husband was a financially abusive alcoholic.

She's justified in ending this relationship because her partner is likely to be financially abusive if she ever became dependent on him, and he's a miserable tight git now.

There is no law that says she has to stay in any relationship just because it's slightly less awful than the one before.

If she wants to look at whether it was all worth breaking up marriages for - well no, not If she stays with M, because he doesn't even make her happy, let alone secure.