to think there's no point in being a SAHM if you're just going to do housework all day?

[CailinDana]

A friend of mine gave up a very responsible job to stay at home with her two young children on the understanding that it was the best option for them. She has great energy and get up and go but seems to see her role as housekeeper rather than childcare provider and spends hours upon hours every day cooking, cleaning, cleaning again and then cleaning some more. She goes to two groups in the week and that's it. Other than that the children (3 and 15 months) occupy themselves in the garden or watch tv.

Lately the 3 year old has started playing up. The friend asked me to take her to a group I go to regularly with my DS as her behaviour is "stopping [friend] getting housework done." That seems to be my friend's main concern, all the time. I have hinted that perhaps the 3 year old is bored and wants some attention. But no, in my friend's mind a SAHM must have a perfect house at all times, bake daily, make magnificent meals from scratch and look immaculate. I sometimes feel like saying "why don't you just go back to work?" I feel like the constant cleaning is a waste of her time and energy and that the children would have a better time at nursery/a CM and everyone would be happier. But friend is convinced that staying at home is for the best.

AIBU to think that yes, a SAHM should do some housework to keep the house from descending into a tip, but if you're going to spend your entire day on housework there's not much point in being home with the children?

I also think if a nursery/CM took on children and the carers just tidied all day the parents would be pretty peeved.

Your list of her day sounds very much like my mother's day would have back in the Seventies, before mums had to spend all day like the Chief Entertainment Officer of the home.

In fact, it sounds like my days as a SAHM. I have a huge aversion to playing and I like my house to be quite tidy. So I do quite a bit around the house and children are expected to amuse themselves.

I get the feeling whatever anyone says you're not going to acknowledge they might have a point Cailin.

Hasn't anyone said anything which has made you think twice or wonder that you could be wrong?

I really wish someone had told my mum to chill the fuck out with housework when I was a child

Me too

But she wouldn't have listened - she judged others on the level of cleanliness in their homes (including her own children)

Yes Agent if you read my posts you'll see I've acknowledged that my idea of reasonable housework might be quite different than others, and I have always qualified what I've said by pointing out it's what I think appears to be the case. It might be that the 3 year old is misbehaving for a different reason and that she and her brother are ok with not going out. It doesn't appear that way to me, but it could be the case.

I don't understand why op should back off from this friendship, unless she doesn't care for this one.
But if she didn't why would she start a thread on MN?

Why are you so obsessed with your friend's lifestyle and habits? The post where you actually list her routine of daily chores is really quite odd (though it did inspire me to get up and sort out my kitchen instead of sitting on MN!).

People can give up a well-paid job for any reason they like, you may not see the 'point' of the way they choose to spend their day, but then it's their life not yours.

Try buying her the book Playful Parenting - a transformative book ime.

She sounds like she is missing the emotional bonding and interaction with her dc for the sake of a perfect house...doesn't sound great on the face of it but tbh this kind of behaviour comes from someone who has emotional problems of their own and without addressing these nothing will change. I'm not sure what you can do as a friend apart from be a good listener with a sympathetic ear.

If she was sticking the kids in front of the TV in order to play computer games all day, for example, I think you'd have got a lot less "judge-not-and-mind-your-own-business" on here, don't you? And more faces, suggestions of depression and mentions of SS...

Can you even leave a 3yo and a 1yo alone together? Mine are 5 and 2, and I wouldn't leave them in the garden together (but we have a climbing frame and a selection of fairly brutal concrete steps)

I agree with you. We try to balance our days - activity/toddler group/friends plus housework each and every day.

My parents were consumed with housework when i was little. The house was immaculate but I never got the attention I needed.

All the cake making and cooking I do with the kids though.

1 yos need pretty close supervision IME.

I don't think you can do that much housework and look after a small toddler adequately.

3 year olds can entertain themselves pretty well without being in any danger.

But few of them want to be ignored by their mother.

YANBU

Her kids would be better off in childcare while she cleans.

Hmmmm. I don't clean much. But I also ignore my children. Oh dear.

I see your point Lady.

"why don't you just go back to work?"

Because then she would have to pay for childcare, and possibly for a cleaner too.

And there's nothing wrong with kids occupying themselves. This whole idea that mothers stay at home to entertain the kids is totally alien to me. I certainly don't think it was the norm when I was a kid.

YANBU

what's that poem? To the fifth child or something? The one line that sticks out is "so quieten down cobwebs, dust go to sleep, I'm rocking my baby as babies don't keep" or something similar.

It's sad. I'm currently on maternity leave and do some housework but either involve my DCs or do it when they sleep. They grow so fast and I'd rather see that then worry about having a clean house all of the time.

She could easily afford childcare on her salary Panicking, money isn't an issue at all.

I don't feel she should be entertaining them all day, but I think it's a bit of waste that when they have a parent at home with them (which I consider quite a luxury really) that that parent doesn't make an effort to do things with them. I'm sure my friend didn't train for 9 years to do housework, yet that's what she's given up her job for. I see being a SAHM as an opportunity to spend time with your children not to stay at home and clean endlessly.

You are probably not being unreasonable, but 3yo and 1yo are quite a challenge to supervise IIRC, particularly when out and about. They are also exhausting generally. I think things may improve for the whole family when 3yo goes to nursery in a few months and presumably this child is now just 1 year from starting school. Perhaps she might feel better taking the younger one to feed the ducks or whatever when older one is at school/nursery. Mine are both at school now, but I do remember the days when they were toddlers and it was very hard work.

Not sure you can say anything to her without causing offence. If you don't want to take her 3yo with you to a class, then say no. I wouldn't have wanted an extra 3yo to look after.

She doesn't sound very happy to me, if she spends her socialising time listing all the jobs that are waiting for her at home.

Yeah, I sort of see your point. But I see hers, too. I kind of thought the primary reason to stay at home with children was to keep them from accidentally killing themselves or burning down the house. "Doing things" is only a minor part of life (for most of us, adults and children alike, "play time" comes rather far behind a long list of priorities) and it doesn't sound as if she never does anything with the kids.

i try and find a balance between kids and house but its not easy especially with two kids of that age.
Mine are 3 & 5 so at school and preschool. I do my cleaning while they are out. when they were younger I would have to put the tv on for them while I cleaned or whizz round when they were eating tea or breakfast.

I had a really happy childhood and don't have lots of memories of my mum playing games with me, rolling out plasticine, taking me to lots of groups. But I do have lots of memories of her just being a comforting presence in the house doing her own jobs whilst I got on with my own stuff and largely entertained myself. She wasn't housework crazy, but there are certain things that just need doing to keep on top of life. It really did not do me any harm. In fact I am very happy with my own company.

OP I think your friend needs help more than her kids. They will be perfectly fine, but she sounds like she needs a rest. Why not invite her out without the kids and have some fun with her? Maybe a day away from jobs will make her realise the world does not end if you don't change your sheets!

Kids need an airing every day, for example a walk to the shops or the park or whatever. They need the sunlight and the experience of the outside world. I wish people took this more seriously. I used to teach young kids who didn't leave the house all weekend and it took a toll on them - we could tell on Mondays.