to think there's no point in being a SAHM if you're just going to do housework all day?

[CailinDana]

A friend of mine gave up a very responsible job to stay at home with her two young children on the understanding that it was the best option for them. She has great energy and get up and go but seems to see her role as housekeeper rather than childcare provider and spends hours upon hours every day cooking, cleaning, cleaning again and then cleaning some more. She goes to two groups in the week and that's it. Other than that the children (3 and 15 months) occupy themselves in the garden or watch tv.

Lately the 3 year old has started playing up. The friend asked me to take her to a group I go to regularly with my DS as her behaviour is "stopping [friend] getting housework done." That seems to be my friend's main concern, all the time. I have hinted that perhaps the 3 year old is bored and wants some attention. But no, in my friend's mind a SAHM must have a perfect house at all times, bake daily, make magnificent meals from scratch and look immaculate. I sometimes feel like saying "why don't you just go back to work?" I feel like the constant cleaning is a waste of her time and energy and that the children would have a better time at nursery/a CM and everyone would be happier. But friend is convinced that staying at home is for the best.

AIBU to think that yes, a SAHM should do some housework to keep the house from descending into a tip, but if you're going to spend your entire day on housework there's not much point in being home with the children?

That is something I worry about dazzled. Her DD really is lovely but since her behaviour has deteriorated I find it hard to be around her (partly because she's pushed and even bitten my DS) and I feel bad that without me the DD might be getting no interaction whatsoever for a lot of the week. She used to cling to me when she was younger, doing the sitting on the lap thing, kissing me etc and I found her overly affectionate (in a nice way) and wondered if it was because her mother is quite cold with her?

I know I come across as interfering and judgey, but I do worry about the DD and my friend does piss me off a bit in the sense that she seems to think the children are just a barrier to housework.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and say something? I worry that she'd just stop seeing me but maybe it's worth the risk.

I think being a sahm is a balance of both (I'm a sahm). One of the reasons I love being at home is that I can keep our house clean, which is really important to me personally. I can't relax if the house is a mess. But I'm reasonable about it - kids always get first dibs at my attention. I'd never ignore them to do housework, but if someone pops round for a tea you can bet I'll use that oppertunity while the children chat to them for a min to fold some washing etc etc!! Maybe that's what your friends doing?

I don't think going to groups means anything really. Some people are group people, some aren't. Doesn't mean the children do worse off or are more bored at home. Not all children need the social interaction of groups. My 5d aged 9 never went to any and she's very sociable now and enjoys school etc. My ds is 12 weeks and I'm not taking him to any groups. For me personally its like torture. Sorry!

*dd not 5 dd - I'd never get any housework done with 5!! :)

I agree Fairy. I don't think it's essential to go to groups necessarily, but I think it's nice to take the children out to meet other children, to the park, to feed the ducks etc. Just nice trips out now and again. In a week she'll go out for two two hour groups and literally every other minute is spent in the house apart from the odd trip to the shop. Even at the groups she's talking about the cakes she has to bake and the cleaning she has to do.

I just feel that there really isn't much point in my friend being at home if she's not there for the children because she doesn't seem to enjoy it at all. I'm aware that's quite judgey of me though.

OP, lots of toddlers push and bite. A couple of my DD's friends pushed her about a bit (albeit they are boys) but I leave them to it as kids need to learn to sort out their own problems even at a young age and now her friends know she take any shit from them as she shouts at them and tell them to behave! Obviously if its anything nastier than a few shoves I will step in but as said above lots of toddlers do this as they are pushing boundaries and establishing their position in the world.

I never took mine to toddler groups, ever. Well that's a lie, I took my eldest A toddler group once a week but it became quite clear that she wasn't wanted there whenn she stopped developing normally so I left it at that

I can't say i keep a tidy house or do loads fo structured play with them either but they are all turning out okay

Thing is though Timothy, it does appear to me that the bad behaviour is purely attention seeking from the DD. She was quite well behaved up until she turned 2 and then seemed to clock that bad behaviour got her attention (as she gets little or nothing otherwise) and so started pushing and biting and then looking at her mother expectantly waiting for her to get up and intervene. She also screams as a way of getting attention.

A bit of bad behaviour is normal, I agree, but it's getting to the point where I don't want to be around the DD any more as it's just to stressful - she is constantly screaming, pushing my DS and her brother, kicking things etc. It's getting quite extreme.

I agree with you OP, as I have a similar friend. It doesn't affect me (apart from when I enviously sit in her lovely, clean house ) but I do feel sad when I hear their children saying that they didn't do certain things because Mummy & Daddy are too busy . Nothing special, just going to the swimming or the park once in a while.

I do worry that friend is a little depressed but most of the time I just judge [raspberry]...she judges people with untidy houses!

The only thing i would say to her re the housework as you did say its constant, (OCD?) is maybe ask if she enjoys it - if she says yes fine, leave it. If she says no its a pain and i feel it should be perfect/it makes me feel more in control/people judge re tidiness etc then that might be a sign its a problem and open up a discussion that aiming for perfection is knackering and no-one is perfect and not to be so hard on herself. I wouldn't say anything re her daughter, just lead by example on some play dates and days out. Not all women take to children like a duck to water but you honestly can learn to enjoy them rather than see them as getting in the way of your 'perfect' home. I so wish someone had done this w. my mother - she just didn;t know how to enjoy us ...but she could have learnt. Her WHOLE life was housework and her children ended up alienated strangers.

we all do things differently, maybe she is doing her best? maybe this is what she thinks is normal? either way, she isn't abusing them or anything and she loves them, so really it's not the end of the world

Will you all stop telling the OP to mind her own business it's stupid.

What on earth is the point of MN if not to discuss things we can't say directly to our partners, friends or DCs or our DCs teaches faces.

Sometimes it's nice to mull over things that bother us.

mind your own business startail, you don't even know the OP so butt out

Everything you've posted Cailin, is all about what you think she should be doing to make her a good parent.

Can you understand that not everyone does the same and that doesn't mean they're wrong.

You're looking at typical 3 YO behaviour and making it into warning signs the little girl's unhappy, but however you look after your children there's bound to be something that's not in this Perfect Childrearing Manual you're reading from.

But then you say you don't really see them that much

I'm not surprised she's defensive when you bring things up, which suggests you have in the past and been given short shrift.

I have recently thought that the reason that some ladies get overly excited about housework is to avoid interacting as much with the kids. Sometimes when I want a break from colouring or doing playdoh I do literally hide in the kitchen doing dishes/washing/cleaning.

I'm not houseproud at all and do the minimum*, but it is draining spending 24/7 with a toddler when they want to play with you all the time. It's these times when housework maybe is appealing

• Only exception being that I get excited on a dry sunny windy day as then I can hang out the laundry and it is lovely and warm and fluffy when it comes in

Sometimes it's nice to mull over things that bother us.

translation: sometimes its nice to judge others and find them lacking.

The OP's judging her friend harshly startail, if posters think she should mind her own what's stupid about posting that opinion?

It is nice to mull things over and discuss them, and in this discussion I think the OP should keep her neb out.

I don't see them much these days Agent, I used to see them quite often but have restricted visits lately as I'm sick of dealing with the DD.

I agree there's no perfect way to bring up a child, but surely a child needs some interaction? Some time to play with other children, a bit of variety and interest?

I don't play with my DS all day, no way, and he often drives me to distraction, but I do enjoy being with him and I consider my main focus to be him in the sense that I try to make sure we both enjoy our days together.

I've done the same Betty

AIBU to think that yes, a SAHM should do some housework to keep the house from descending into a tip, but if you're going to spend your entire day on housework there's not much point in being home with the children?

A SAHM should do whatever suits her and her family.

That's it really.

But what if it doesn't suit her family Worra? Or her really, for that matter?

Fair enough CailinDana if you think her DD's behaviour is more than just normal toddler behaviour but most kids start playing up when they turn 2. I do think it is said that you can't talk to your friend about this if her DD's behaviour is that extreme.

No, right now it doesn't suit you

You cannot possibly know her why her child is misbehaving, sounds like 3 year old behaviour to me. But since you cannot think there is only 1 way to parent-your way- then you cannot tell her she is doing it wrong.

It is SAD! Not said.

I know many people think the OP is judging, but my mother actually did this, I was one of the kids on the receiving end, and it's not much fun when your mother is so obsessed with appearances that you are short on actual affectionate mothering and social interaction. I think women in general should dust less and live more.

I think everyone is being quite harsh on the op.

We have to take her word for what's going on (although its a snapshot view) and if she's saying that this woman is literally going out for 2 hours a week and spending every day all day cleaning and not interacting much with the children, then that is wrong. I feel sorry for the children fif that is the case. Its not much of a life is it. IF - big IF - that is really what's happening.