To be fuming with dd's school for letting her go out the gate alone?

[MsBrown]

I was standing at the infant doors today waiting on dd coming out of school at hometime. When it got to about five past three, i started to get worried as her class is normally out as soon as the bell goes.

Then a mum walked up to me and asked if my little girl has a pink spotty bag, to which i replied yes, and she said my dd was making her way across the senior yard towards the main gate.

I ran off towards the gate, still couldn't see dd anywhere, so i started calling on her. Another mum came up and told me she's just seen a little girl walking down the street calling on her mummy.

I ran out and thankfully caught up with dd. She was walking along the path next to the main road, calling 'mummy'.

I told her off and explained she's never to do that again.

What had happened was she didn't see me so went looking for me. And the reason i couldn't see her coming out the infant doors is because all the parents flock round the doors at hometime, making it near on impossible to see the children. DD obviously just slipped right past me. I told her that if she doesn't see me again, she's to stay at the doors or go back into school - not wander off.

AIBU to be fuming with the school. IMO the teacher should be keeping an eye on her pupils, making sure they're going to the right adult. There's been a few occassions where my dd's wandered around the infant yard looking for me at hometime as she can't see me because of all the other mums and dads in the crowd, and i can't see her because of the same reasons.

I'm also angry with the other adults for not stopping dd and trying to help her. She was in obvious distress and is only 4. If i saw an upset 4yo walking along a main road, i'd try and help them. Not leave them to it.

So, should i complain to the school tomorrow or let it go? I feel sick at the thought of what could have happened had i not caught up with her.

At the Scottish school my daughter goes to the kids are picked up from the classroom door for the first three years. The teacher has to see who they are being handed over to.

That's an unbelievably neglectful of the school! I'd be raising merry hell if it was one of my dds. At my dds' school there are 4 gates into to the school that lead into the junior, infant and reception playground. They have a teacher or TA posted at each one both morning and afternoon. In reception all the kids are kept in the class room and a teacher stands at the door and calls 1 child at a time when they see the parent.

I'd be fuming too. In the infants round here the teachers do not let the kids out of the school yard until an adult (one they know) comes to pick them up. In my nephew's class (he's also 4) there's a child who's parents 9 times out of ten arrive 15 mins late. The teacher always takes the child back to class to wait once all the others have gone. The TA's also help with hand overs to so there's always more than one person to keep an eye on the kids.

You should not be being put in the position of having to 'brief' your 4 year old not to leave the school gates alone, it should simply not be possible for a child to do it even by accident.

There should be proper procedures at drop off and home time, and gates shut during break time etc so that children can't just wander off into the streets.

Yes maybe if a school is in a close community with lots of people who will look out for them - and no cars or busy roads nearby - it's not such an issue, but how many UK primaries are like that?

I would complain to the class teacher and the head teacher and ask what they intend to do to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

When ds was in reception the teachers would only allow him out of the door if the person collecting him was there and they had seen them. No wandering around outside at all.

Thank you everyone.

I've just sent an email. Not rude, but firm. I expressed my concern about dd's safety at future hometimes and suggested a procedure be put in place whch prevents parents crowding around the doors, blocking children's/teacher's views of other parents.

I've asked them to call me to discuss my daughter's incident.

I shall keep you posted.

You're right to take a firm stand on this. Reception class children should be dismissed one at a time , by the teacher or TA, to an identified adult.

If you speak to the head or teacher , you might want to make it clear that you consider this a safeguarding issue and expect the school to change procedures so that this can't happen again.

I'd hope they couldn't just wander out the playground! I wouldn't trust a 4 year old not to tbh.

In our primary school the P1's are collected from the classroom for the first week only. The second week the teacher takes them to the school gate to meet their parents and after that they are just let out when the bell rings. Ds3 is in P2 now and several of his classmates have been walking home, alone, since the end of P1. One even cycles Ds knows to wait at the back gate for me to collect him if he is not going to after school club.

YADNBU!! This is awful and I'm glad you managed to catch up with her. I hope the school take this incident seriously.

DD1 starts school tomorrow and this is one of my main fears :( Sorry that you've had to go through that today.

They could wander out the playground pretty easily at our school but they don't as they are not allowed.

Don't know what kind of primary ones ye all have, have never seen or heard of any wandering off, if a parent not there they just go back to stand at door with teacher. They know that is the rules.

School pretty big on them being responsible etc.

Fannyfifer - I find it strange you're suggesting it's my fault dd got out the gates yesterday. I've already said that i've told her several times beforehand she's never do such a thing, yet she still did it. What more could i have done?

She is 4 1/2 years old. She couldn't see her mum because of the huge mob of parents and obviously panicked. I think it's unfair to expect someone so young to remain rational in that type of situation.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. Parents should be organised in a way that allows children to clearly come out of the doors and be seen by their parents, and this will allow the teachers to see each child going to the correct adult.

I sent an email yesterday but now wondering how long i should leave it until i phone up? I don't want this being ignored, so was thinking if they don't contact me by 2pm, i should phone them?

Mrs Brown, if you don't get any response by 2pm, could you possibly ask to speak to your daughter's class teacher about the incident when you pick DD up? Maybe then ask to speak to the Head too so he/she are also aware of what happened and it's not to happen again.

My advice is that this is a bit more serious than something you just have a chat with the class teacher about. It highlights a procedural failure in the school and is a safeguarding issue. Please, make an appointment to speak to the Headteacher about the incident, and in that meeting, make it clear that you would like to get a response in writing telling you what processes have been put in place to make sure this does not happen again - to any child from any class.
I think two things need to be addressed here. The first is obviously that the school staff have to have a procedure to follow at home time that ensures that each child is passed to an appropriate adult. The second is to make sure that all parents know they are not allowed to crowd the door. Also, that if they want to speak to a teacher after school they must wait until all of the other children in the class have safely been seen out. The staff need to be confident and empowered to insist on this when parents get stroppy and decide it doesn't apply to them - as they undoubtedly will.
You will be doing the school and the staff a favour. Incidents like this can result in staff going through disciplinary procedures.

Thank you schoolgoverner.

I'm reluctant to discuss this with the teacher as i don't feel yesterday's incident is down to her. It's because of the school's lack of procedure. And the only people who can deal with this are the head and depute head.

You've made some really great suggestions and i'll be sure to pass them on. I'll give the school until 2pm to call me back, before i phone them.

Schoolgoverner is right. I only suggested talking to the teacher later on if you don't get a response so that she could pass you on to the head the same time - so issues can be addressed.

But schoolgoverner has hit the nail on the head about going through all the right procedures. It's unresponsible of the school on a whole to just let 4-year-old children wonder off and more safeguarding needs to be put in place for all.

DS has just started school. There are 3 p1 classes and same for p2. They set up sections in the playground so parents of 1a are on one side, 1b in the middle etc etc. It works really well this way

The Headteacher is rightly going to have a fit when they hear about this. I wonder if they've even seen the email you sent. I am pretty sure it will be taken seriously, really the only thing you need to do is bring it to the attention of the right person.
I have been involved in a disciplinary when a member of staff lost a child at hometime, it was heartbreaking to be honest. Yes, she was in the wrong, but really the people to blame were the parents who persistently ignored the letters asking them to keep the door clear, and the procedure they had been asked to follow if they wanted to talk to the teacher after school. So many of them thought they were some sort of special case, maybe because they had another child to collect from another class, or just that they thought they were somehow more important. The teacher was a very good teacher, but found it hard to stand up to the "assertive" parents, and anyway, even having the argument with them was a distraction from seeing the children out safely. She was the one left with a written warning on her file though.
Personally I don't think this is a job for one person. You maybe need a TA inside the class keeping the children together, maybe sitting down. The the teacher at the door, fending off PITA parents and only sending out a child when the view is clear.

p.s. There is another thread somewhere about parents crowding inside a school dropping off their new starters. That is also a highly dangerous situation and a complaint should be made. What if a child wanders off in that situation after their mum or dad has left?

I find it odd that's all that a primary one would just wander off.
Does she know to wait at the kerb when crossing a road, or not to go out the gate when playing in the garden?

What happens if she gets lost in a shop or shopping centre? Have ye a drill for that, a meeting point to go to just in case?

Occasionally if a mum is running late at our school, child wanders down to gate, no one there so goes back to teacher at the door and waits there.

They do not leave the playground.

I would be very cross with my child if they left the playground, wouldn't blame the school though.

Yanbu. At our school, they keep them all at the gate and don't let the children go until they have seen the person who's collecting them.

FannyFifer, it doesn't really matter if you would blame the school or not, it is their responsibility in law.
If your school is allowing young children to "wander down to the gate" then they need a massive wake up call. They are being negligent. I'm not stating a personal opinion, it's just how it is.

I would blame the school, not the child, yes she should have waited at the gate but she's only four and has only just started school. If it was an older child who knows very well that they should wait, then I would be cross with the child.

Teacher at door of school can see down to the gate, parents are usually either side of path from school door to gate, if no parent the child comes back up to the teacher at door.
Children understand not to leave the school grounds, not difficult.

At our school they make sure they are collected by an adult for at least the first three years, keeping a particularly close eye on the P.1s.