to call ss?

[alienreflux]

Ok so this is the first time i've had a thread so hope i get lots of honest replies.i have a neighbour who has a now 2.5 yr old girl,she is a single mum.i have seen her smack the little girls bum while holding her over her arm, what looked quite hard 4/5 times. then last week while gettting my dc's in the car (about 5 houses down) i could hear her screaming at the top of her lungs "all you do is want want want well FUUUUUUCCK YOU" when i got back from shop i could hear little girl really screaming. AIBU to put a call in to ss? have never done anything like that before, but can't stop worrying.

The woman sounds awful, and no, there is no excuse for beating and screaming vile abuse at a very young child. Call ss. I would.

curious, its more that there is nothing to stop someone moving back in.

I personally know someone who was removed from a house by police and SS following allegations of serious child abuse (not of the children in the house) - his wife refused to believe the allegations.

He is currently on police bail, pending trial and has moved straight back into the house, where he has access not only to his own children, but everyone elses.

When this has been questioned with SS, this is the answer, they can suggest, but without a conviction, cannot insist.

And please dont ask me how I know, take it as given I am being 100% accurate with this.

I believe this man to be absolutely guilty, without a question of a doubt and am horrified that his childrens friends are currently in and out of the house, and their parents have absolutely no idea that he is on bail for numerous counts of rape and sex with a child.

That's awful ifiwas Oh her head be it, those poor dcs.

And the authorities, it's so very wrong.

and we all know how poor the conviction rate is - 6%.

If the woman behaved like that towards an adult it would be common assault. I see no reason why it isn't an offence when it's directed at a helpless & dependent child. Phone the police & phone Ss.

Yes, if only for your own peace of mind report this woman.

Being at the end of your tether doesn't excuse child abuse.

Smacking isn't illegal. You may not like it but it isn't.

Swearing at a child is horrible - I don't like that either but again, it's not illegal.

And two year olds scream - it's what they do. It may be that she was screaming in response to her mother, or it may be that she was screaming because she was having a tantrum - two year olds have those. "all you do is want" (minus the expletive) sounds like a response to a child kicking off over not getting their own way to me.

Social services have an excessive workload of genuinely serious abuse cases. Smacking a child and swearing at it is not one of them.

But tbh op post this thread here again in a few days time and you will get different responses, because everyone thinks differently. A few years back I posted a thread (under a namechange) after a parent at school admitted that the only way in which her child responded to discipline was by her washing his mouth out with soap, and that he was going to have it done to him that night. Moreover, he had gone round the house and hidden all the bars of soap so they had laughed and used shower gell instead. In that instance I seriously considered ringing SS. But the responses I got ranged from "it's none of your business how other people discipline their children," to "didn't do me any harm when I was a child."

These are far from ideal behaviours but I don't think this is a reason to call social services, personally.

If you suspect a child is being mistreated the worse thing you can do is nothing.

Saying 'smacking isn't illegal' is inaccurate - it's a very grey area. The law permits 'reasonable chastisement.'

ifiwas that's absolutely appalling! If I were involved in that situation I would be making a complaint against whoever has sanctioned that advice. It certainly isn't beyond their power to safeguard the children in this case. Usually it's a condition of bail in cases of alleged abuse that the defendant does not have contact with children. I can't fathom why a judge has released someone to a bail address where children are present in the first place!

As for SS, I'm not sure about the powers to keep him from living there as that is usually the judges job but I do know they don't have to just sit back and wait to see whether he offends whilst there. I was the victim of abuse by a family member as a child and when it came out my mother was given strict instructions that if she allowed him access to me I would be placed on the at risk register and ultimately removed from her care if I was put at risk of further abuse. This was without any police involvement or charges at all!

I'm gobsmacked that those children have been allowed to be put at risk when SS are involved. It must be awful for you knowing this is the case and not being able to do anything. I don't even know them and it makes me

The police don't even has his address, he was bailed to one address and moved back into the family home afterwards.

He is innocent until proven guilty - and he can live where he lives.

Is sickening.

I honestly don't know what to say!! I can't believe that's been allowed to happen. I thought that bail was revoked if the defendant doesn't live at the bail address! How utterly stupid of the professionals involved to allow this.

Sorry for the thread hijack OP, I'm just

Im sorry, but it had been a man being described in the OP, then the response on here would be completely different - and unanimous. I am pretty sure that words like 'unwell' and 'struggling' would not feature.

OP, I would call SS. If there is nothing to it then it doesnt matter, but shouting FUUUUUUCCK YOU at a 2 year old and smacking them repeatedly (and I am not 100% against smacking) is not normal 'end of your tether' parenting behaviour.

O/P please call the NSPCC for a chat about what the right course of action is on 0808 800 5000. They are fine with people phoning them and saying 'I'm worried, but don't want to bring more grief on a stressed out situation.'

They will talk it over with you and understand that everyone has different standards and are very good at teasing out the difference between rough parenting and potential abuse if you're not sure which is which.

Im sorry, but it had been a man being described in the OP, then the response on here would be completely different - and unanimous. I am pretty sure that words like 'unwell' and 'struggling' would not feature

I totally agree with that.

I would never say 'don't call'...........however my dsil is a social worker and she says calls like this do not get followed up on. ~They do not offer support or do 'house calls' any more unless the child is in dire conditions.

My face looked like and she just said they no longer have the resources.

it 'seems' that she needs some help/support. but how do we know that she was shouting fuck you at the child? was it a one of that she felt really bad about after.

youcan no way!!! What constitutes a reason for a visit then?

Why SS? An investigation just puts a struggling Mum under greater stress without actually providing her with any support.

Why not the HV service? They have quick access to genuine support for struggling parents that can be accessed fast - such as parenting groups, courses, early (2 years +) free nursery places to give a parent a bit of a break etc, etc. The HV service can be accessed via the GP. They often send in a homestart volunteer - someone with parenting experience to offer real support over a period of months to someone feeling lonely, isolated, judged, and overwhelmed by the lone parent experience.

Help not threats is what's needed in situations like this, at least in the first instance. I've lost count of the number of Mum's I've spoken to IRL who have been at their wits end cos a kid's behavior was caused by special needs yet "the system" wasn't supporting them.

With a 2.5 year old - a HV is much better placed than a SW to check that parental stress isn't down to undiagnosed special needs in the child or post natal depression/malnutrition in the mother. (not eating properly cos benefits have messed up is all too common for single parents!). SW's don't have the same skill set. If it is abysmal parenting without mitigation, then trust me, any HV worth their SALT will call in SS, and be taken much more seriously than a member of the public in making sure that child is made safe asap.

Smacking is legal - you don't have to like it, but it is. Swearing at your kid as a one off when at the end of your tether, also isn't illegal - morally I think it's repugnant, but I can understand how someone without money, emotional support, a stable home etc might be driven to it just the once.

A SS investigation in and of itself, causes it's own VERY significant damage to a family unit, from which this Mum & her child may never recover. Contrary to popular belief it doesn't automatically bring about this amazing utopian upbringing for children that everyone assumes it does (look at the number of kids in care who wind up trafficked each year, or the educational attainment levels of looked after children to see what I mean). SWs have no influence over health services - which is what he Mum may need if she is at the end of her tether.

I honestly think that if you think a child is at immediate physical risk of harm then the police are the best agency to call. If you see a beating (as opposed to the legal smacked bum or tap on the hand) dial 999, don't mess about ffs.

it was a long time ago but my next door neighbour was like this every night with her three, as she struggled to get them all bathed and ready for bed. we were in detached houses and i could hear her from my kitchen. it never crossed my mind to call social services. she was a loving mother of three well cared for children who are now confident and successful adults.

some people swear. i do. it doesn't mean the child is abused. some people smack their children - if that's how the mother was brought up she might not know any other way.

i don't think you should call ss on this evidence. i don't think you should 'assess' the situation. but if you get the chance, do befriend the woman and give her a listening ear and the odd cup of coffee. do you know which doctor she uses? you could phone local practices and inform the health visitors. even though they won't be able to confirm if they deal with this family, if they do, they will probably look into it.

i got as far as picking up the phone to ss about another neighbour - his son had a broken arm, and embarrassed when asked how it happened. as i was about to dial, another screaming match started, and i could hear the father being thrown out by the mother. one of the things she shouted was 'and if you come near me again i'll tell the police about how he really broke his arm, not the lies you told at the hospital!'.

ha! x-post, bochead!

If you're really concerned then call. If she is already known to social services then they may want to follow it up.

However I do think we need to be careful to differentiate between 'abuse' and 'not parenting in a way I approve of.'

I don't approve of how this woman has acted but I grew up in a fairly middle class area in the 1980s and smacking, several times and hard, was the usual punishment for just about ANY misbehaviour not just in my family but neighbours etc. My reception class teacher smacked dc hard on the bum or hand for being a too noisy and screamed like a banshee (obv. didn't swear). I also can think of a couple of occasions when DH was working away and I had 2 toddlers (16 months between them) and I did scream and shout, not swear but god knows what it must have looked like to someone on the outside. And I always apologised to the dc afterwards and explained the mummy was very tired, shouldn't have shouted like that etc.

misspants there is more - but my hands are tied, they wont always be so though.

"However I do think we need to be careful to differentiate between 'abuse' and 'not parenting in a way I approve of.'" absolutely agree with this. The term "abuse" is overused far too often on mn IMO to essentially justify peoples' own judgyness over what they disapprove of...

One witnessed smacking and one swearing at a screaming child is not abuse. It's not even an indication that someone needs help. We've all lost it from time to time - some more spectacularly than others. And I would put money on the fact that each and every one of us has at some point acted in a way towards our children which, if witnessed as a one-off, would send someone running for the telephone, not only because we have all acted out of line at some point, but because everyone's definitions of right and wrong differ, and what to one is losing it, is child abuse to another.

Some people shout at their kids - it's how they parent. I don't agree with swearing at a two year old but swearing is not an indication of whether you are a child abuser.

Other people never shout at their kids, and sometimes those people are far more dangerous, because they parent in such a way that makes them look perfect on the surface, but they are mennacing and controlling underneath and the public at large never see it, yet the children can still be subjected to emotional abuse.

We need to be careful not to dress harm to children in a one-size-fits-all box defined by certain trates ie if you smack you are an abuser, if you swear you are an abuser/in need of help.