to call ss?

[alienreflux]

Ok so this is the first time i've had a thread so hope i get lots of honest replies.i have a neighbour who has a now 2.5 yr old girl,she is a single mum.i have seen her smack the little girls bum while holding her over her arm, what looked quite hard 4/5 times. then last week while gettting my dc's in the car (about 5 houses down) i could hear her screaming at the top of her lungs "all you do is want want want well FUUUUUUCCK YOU" when i got back from shop i could hear little girl really screaming. AIBU to put a call in to ss? have never done anything like that before, but can't stop worrying.

Cross post there, ifiwas...
I'm so sorry for what you are going through and hope you can get the appropriate support. You sound different to the person the op is talking about.

kitty I may be different, I may not be, but last weekend, I was just like the person the OP is talking about.

What I will say is SS are not the panacea everyone thinks they are, they do not help people who are "struggling" and they couldn't care less about things that are far and away more serious than the things the OP describes because they do not have the resources to fulfill even their statutory duties.

Alien, if you have young children, you could invite her in for a coffee if you bump into her, and FWIW, thats what I would do in the same situation, (and thats regardless of where we are now).

Most SS Childrens Services Departments are staffed by dedicated people who have huge workloads and are buckling under the strain.

Can I add, I absolutely and unquestionably know I was totally out of order with poor DC last weekend, screaming like a banshee, but my nerves are absolutely shot, and DC was picking up on that which created a vicious circle, I was anxious, so DC played up, DC played up, so I got more anxious, and so on and so forth.

I havent seen them for 3 days this week, because I felt it was best for them to be out of the stressful situation our household finds itself in, but because the DC know there is something wrong, but they cant understand what, that too is potentially damaging to them and one of them has been crying for me.

There is no right answer to a situation like this, to some of you, the mother described in the OP sounds abusive and awful, to me, she sounds at the end of her tether, chances are she is overwhelmed, if she was abusive, she would be hiding it.

OP you can't possibly be in a position to decide whether the Mother is regularly abusive or is simply frazzled and lost her rag for a moment.

That's what SS are there for, if she needs support they will see that and give her some. Equally they will see if anything further is needed.

You aren't and shouldn't be expected to establish whether there is long running neglect or abuse before you place a call. The only criteria for ringing SS is that you have a concern, they won't be asking you how much investigation you've done.

Give them a ring, explain that you feel a mum and her child may be in need of support and why. Then let them take over.

what do you think SS will actually do, what support do you think they will provide?

If you are worried about the child's safety phone SS

Yeah I doubt they'd take the child away immediately, probably just offer her practical support etc so it's nothing to feel guilty about.

Maybe she's been raised in a similar way and doesn't know how to change her parenting style? Being shouty etc can be a vicious (sp?) cycle.

SS probably won't do anything but you never know. If you know the address of the woman, try to find some leaflets from your local toddler groups and put them through her door. It sounds as though she needs to be experiencing some positive interaction with children, watching it happen at toddler groups is a very good way to learn. She should be enjoying her child, not feeling stressed by her.

You might not like it but smacking is legal.

Hearing a mum swear at a child ONCE is not grounds for taking social workers away from genuine abuse cases.

If you want to help the mum, HELP her, don't just cause more stress!

What about talking to someone at the local childrens' centre? They may have a home visiting team that could be a first step before SS get involved.

OP, personally I wouldn't rush in to call SS just yet.
How long has stuff like this been going on for? or is what you describe in your op all you have seen/heard?
If you haven't seen or heard anything else, I would just keep out of it, we all go through bad days.
Parents are allowed to smack their own children, and befor anyone jumps on me, there is a massive difference between a smack and a beating.
I remember a day a while ago where ds1 was really winding me up, he was just whinging and whiny all day and pushy pushy pushy. By dinner time I screamed at him to fuck off but hey, it is what it is. It doesn't happen regularly (just that once) but I don't need someone to report me to SS.
The HV won't do anything. I called mine a few years back when my neighbours child was very young (about a year maybe) and said that I was concerned, that I thought maybe she needs some help because the baby was always crying, she was always screaming, they never left the house or opened the curtains and the hv told me they couldn't do anything because contact hs to be initiated by the family so I'd have to call SS. I decided it wasn't that extreme.

"There is no right answer to a situation like this, to some of you, the mother described in the OP sounds abusive and awful, to me, she sounds at the end of her tether, chances are she is overwhelmed, if she was abusive, she would be hiding it."

This is potentially a very harmful assumption. You can't possibly know that a mother who shouts at her children (and I am one) is not abusing them because she is shouting. That's not how abuse works.

It is just as damaging, if not more so, to assume no abuse as to assume abuse.

We will all have a different interpretation of the situation described in the OP depending on our own experiences. This does not mean that I know better than you, or you I, or either of us better than the Op whether or not a child is being abused. Let SS do their job.

Maybe she was trying to run out onto the road and gave her mother a fright so she decided to scare her from ever doing it again

If a 2.5yr old ran onto a road, the only person to blame is the adult who was supposed to be supervising.

Smacking her bum 4 or 5 times because an adult failed to supervise a toddler, is not on.

Still doesn't make it abuse or justify calling ss Worra. Nobody's parenting is perfect all the time.

Of course not but if the OP truly feels a call to SS is the right thing to do, then I don't think it'll do any harm.

Personally, I wouldn't call them for an incident like this but if the OP has a gut feeling, it's up to her to act on it.

I really don't think screaming at the toddler the way this mother has can be described as someone at the end of their tether. I've had horrendously stressful times but would phone NSPCC/SS myself if I treated my dcs that way and they're much older. She sounds unwell.

I heard a woman screaming in a boys face the other day in town. She was with a group of other women and dcs. They didn't bat an eyelid ds2 (11) was so concerned for the boy. What worries me is if they carry on like this in public then what the fuck goes on behind closed doors? If people have anger management problems then they should get help not take it out on dcs.

My dad was very aggressive and believe me it sticks with you. It affects you in ways you don't realise until you're older. Luckily I haven't gone down that route. I have shouted but not from frustration or aggression. And if I feel I've been OTT I apologise. I'm far far from perfect but if my dcs were scared of me as I was my dad then I'd be disgusted with myself.

Good luck OP I hope you can figure out the best thing to do? But if it does carry on please inform someone then hopefully this little girl will be helped?

How do you know the smacking didn't leave a mark- 5 or 6 times is excessive.

I'm sorry but how do you I don't have a clue ifiwas? Whatever clue I do and don't have you have to draw a line that you're not prepared to cross.

I just don't believe this BS that proclaims 'real abuse' is hidden? Is it? Who says? Behind closed doors it makes sense that it can be even worse! If you don't react to these things you can't certainly be complicit in the abuse. So she may have had a tough day, tough life, so let her take it on her 2 year old like some kind of sick therapy. Take some responsibility and set yourself some moral boundaries!

curious that's what would concern me also. if its out in public and smacking/swearing is acceptable then what happens in private.
I would feel no guilt in reporting my concerns than to ignore it and hope she just having a bad day.

You can't call the authorities on people for a 'gut feeling', what a ridiculous waste of resources they don't have. Not to mention all the unfortunate people who happen to 'look' like terrorists, criminals, child abusers through the eyes of paranoid delusional people who think there's something up with anybody who isn't exactly like them.

SS should only be called to investigate known abuse or where there's good reason to believe it a real possibility. So if this woman moves a known rapist into her home, call ss. If you see the child being beaten (not smacked), call ss.

One incident of smacking and one incident of shouting doesn't indicate anything, if everybody called ss for such stupid reasons, the system would collapse and no genuinely abused child could be helped. As it is, far to many are lost because of this type of time wasting, it harms everyone involved.

I wanted to take that boy home with me I feel so bad for him.

Of course you can call them on a gut feeling when you've just witnessed a child being excessively smacked and screamed at/sworn at before your eyes.

If you witness that and your gut tells you not to ignore it then you ring SS and give them the opportunity to do their job.

Smacking IS abuse if you leave a mark!

Yes bobbledunk because smacking never leads to beating does it?

SS wont do anything anyway, they wont remove an abuser from a house until there is a conviction, they can ask, but they have no powers of removal.

Of course you can ring them, but my fear is it has the potential to make things worse and send the mother into hiding.

SS will make an assessment won't they? Isn't that what their job is? I rang them once (and NSPCC) because of a situation regarding a friend and her exdh. Her dcs had gone through years of it and other friends had turned a blind eye. I got them involved and she got support. Got the exdh out and her remaining dcs are much happier and free. One dc is estranged and now has a baby of his own which she'll (friend) never see. He can't forgive her for not protecting him. Sadly the friends and family who turned a blind eye don't see him or the baby either.

The police got my friend's exdh out with the help of SS. Has this changed then?