About tipping in America

[AnnaLiza]

I was in LA last week and decided to get a haircut so I went to a salon near the hotel which had good reviews. The owner was the sole hairdresser and did a decent job at cutting my hair but it was by no means the best haircut I've ever had. Anyway, when I was paying ($85) his secretary asked "so are you leaving a tip for Nico today?". I must have gone purple as I was not expecting that...I then said "I don't think it's necessary" and hurried out as quick as I could, feeling like the meanest person ever, which I'm not at all.
I can just about undertstand tipping the waiter when there's no national minimum and they rely on tips for a living...but what's the justification for asking for a tip when you're a professional who charges $85 for a haircut? I find it very rude to be asked for money and then made to feel like shit for not forking out more. If you think $85 is not enough then just charge more and let people decide if they want to pay for your services.
Am I missing something?

Outraged, I don't know if it is still standard but it was when I was a barmaid. If someone said "and take your own" you would not literally take the price of a drink, so if it was a half of lager you might take 20p. You would only say this once all night, usually the first time. I have no idea whether people still do this or even used to do this everywhere, I think it was very much a pub thing or even a local pub thing rather than a bar thing.
Obviously "looking down on southerners" is very much tongue in cheek! We knew they didn't know and didn't mean to be rude, bless them.

I am disappointed that no one is helping me with all my tipping-in-salons quandaries. Anyone? (second time this week have been totally ignored on a style & beauty type question - it is clearly apparent even from a distance and through a keyboard that I am beyond help)

KitCat that makes totally sense and it does give a feeling of not 'being served* as in they are beneath me...

The system generally works though Outraged - its just different to the one we are used to. Its not necessarily selfish, if they do actually get the rate they expect - which includes tips. Its only a problem when idiot tourist comes in and decides their system is better and compares it directly with the US one not fully understanding it and decides in their infinite wisdom not to pay the full going rate.

Well if the workers don't like it then they can take it up with their employers.

Sorry, I do think it is selfish for a customer who knows they should tip, who knows their waiter is dependent on that income, to not tip simply because they don't think it's a good system.

It's especially selfish considering most tourists to America will be putting thousands of dollars in the pockets of airlines, hotels and other corporations, yet somehow that $5-10 given to a poorly paid waiter is what is so unreasonable.

Novack do you know ANYTHING about the US?

You know things like how mistrusted and week labour unions are and how they are associated with communism and how just a few decades ago, comments like that might land you in rather hot water in the US?

week - weak*

Hahaha at taking it up with their employers.

It's a cultural system. It's just how things work. Waiters don't have unions, they can be and are fired at will, and the economics of the service industry are what dictate tipping culture.

HmmThinking
You know things like how mistrusted and week labour unions are and how they are associated with communism and how just a few decades ago, comments like that might land you in rather hot water in the US?

Unimaginable for people not knowing the ins and outs of U.S. society.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, as it is absolutely true, unfortunately...

Any waiter who tried to get a union going or get their employer to follow the few regulations that do exist would be fired so fast.

Seriously, waiters have no protection in the workplace.

There are still many perks of being a waiter, that's why people do it (flexibility, don't need qualifications, you can make a good salary if you're lucky, etc.) But you do have to put up with a lot of BS unfortunately.

I'm beginning to feel that trying to explain the US tipping system to a Brit, is rather like trying to explain the British attitude to guns to a redneck.

They both live in totally different worlds with no comprehension or exposure to others.

In the part of Australia I live in, tipping is not expected at all.
I am sure this does not negatively affect service compared to US , UK, etc.

I recently took my staff & partners out to a meal at a great new city centre restaurant.
Service was wonderful, I gave what I thought was a reasonable 10% tip.
The restaurant staff told me they were stunned, best tip they had ever had, would we all like to jump the queue to go the rooftop bar etc.
( no I had not had to many wines and miscalculated)

This confirmed my view that service industries should charge a fair price and expect nothing extra.
No stress or angst for diners or restaurant employees,
I am baffled as to why it is made so complicated

Vezzie, I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question, you give what you want to as a tip. Personally, I wouldn't tip more than a fiver for a hairdresser, because if I'm going to a hairdresser then that's already an expense for me, and Im not going to make it more expensive on myself for the sake of it. Normally I just round up to the nearest five or ten pounds, but only if I feel I have had particularly good service. If someone had just done a bog standard job, they won't get anything.

I have already said I would tip in the US, but I don't really think you can say a system is working when a customer has to pay twice for the same thing, and when employees may or may not get paid for the job they are doing.

$5-10 adds up when you are supposed to do it for every single service provider you come into contact with. That could end up as hundereds of dollars for a two week trip that you have carefully budgeted and saved for. It's not being selfish if you can't afford it. I go on holiday, and I hope to return to America in the next few years, but I'm not going to price myself out of taking a trip abroad because of a silly idea that it's ok to pay twice for exactly the same thing. If everything was cheaper in the US, then it would be understandable, but it isn't.

I am in the UK and always tip my hairdresser and the girl who washes my hair, even if it's only a couple of pound.

Yeah 'cause 16000 die needless because of tipping a year. Oh wait that would be guns that do that.

Thanks theoriginal and dreaming for clearing up what figure I need to use.

Novack, employment rights are not good, and wait staff are not in in a position of power to change the system.

Also, having met a teacher waiting tables as a second job as their pay from working at a public school was not enough to support their family, I will continue to tip, as if I am rich enough (as a teacher in the UK) to holiday in the US and eat out, I am rich enough to add the expected tip.

Tipping is weird, but expected pretty much everywhere in the US (agree with 15% being the norm and 20% if the service was great).
Being French (where no tip is expected, except in coffee shops, mostly in Paris and theatre/opera), I had a hard time when moving to the US 4 years ago! I hate it, it makes me feel quite uncomfortable - as to how much to tip - and angry - because hey, I have already paid!

I believe the custom has to do with everyone's freedom to reward good services --and people thinking they are making you a favor by doing what they are supposed to-

Don't rule out those deadly swimming pools, Novack.

What are wait staff?? Do you mean waiters??

I think you're right Hmm. I don't know how else I can explain things to get people to understand.

To say something like 'I'm already spending loads of money on a trip to the states, I'm not going to spend extra on tips because then I can't afford to go' just makes no sense to an American. It's like saying 'I'm going to London but I think the tube is too expensive so I'm just going to jump over the turnstiles.'

Just because tipping is not mandatory or a legal requirement does not make it any less expected, to an American. It's something that you just do. To knowingly refuse to go along with it is just rude.

Waiters, servers, wait staff, yes, all the same thing.

dreamingbohemnian you have explained it really well there and anybody who doesnt get it is being wilfully stupid.

Just because it is the US doesnt mean there arent different expected behaviours that you should follow. If you dont like it then dont travel there in the first place - thats your choice.

The American mentality to work is very much related to hard work being rewarded. If you don't do your job, you get fired. (So if you don't get a tip, your boss if going to look at you and ask what you are doing wrong as it reflects on their restaurant and their reputation).

I don't think we understand that the same way here as its so different here. Precisely because there ultimately isn't the same punishment for pulling a sickie or being unemployed or just having a shit work ethic. You will always be looked after to an extent. So there isn't the same incentive to work. You are protected by employment law (often under EU law) or by benefits. Its incredibly difficult to get rid of an employee in this country as they have a multitude of rights. You might not realise it and you might take it for granted but thats the way it is.

You can look at every aspect of employment in the US and workers have less rights. They have less holiday, work longer hours, have very little maternity leave, can be fired without due process. Waiting staff in the US are often made responsible for the bill if a table does a runner - can you imagine that in the UK?

You might not like the US system, but thats the way it is. And if you don't tip you don't really know the consequences of doing that. It could mean someone losing their job. It could mean them missing the rent. It could mean not feeding their kids. It could mean not being able to take their child to see the doctor.

And unfortunately thats not overstating or exaggerating. I wish it was. If you want to carry on with your ignorance feel free; you only serve to cause problems for low paid workers who can't survive without tips and you are one no better than one of these Brits abroad idiots who complain about there not being any British food when they are in Spain.

It's not like saying the tube is to expensive so I'm just going to jump over the barriers at all. It's like saying I think the tube is too expensive so I would prefer to only buy one ticket for my journey rather than buy two tickets for the same journey.

I do absolutely 'get it'. It's not exactly hard to understand. But it is a ridiculous system that is unfair to employees as well as customers. No amount of whining that 'it's just something you do' is going to make it a good system. It's not.

We moved to USA last year and have had to get used to this - an easy way to work out tips is to roughly double the sales tax on the bill.

With hairdressers, I've had to be a bit more organised and make sure I have the correct dollar bills for the end of the service - so for instance the haircut cost $75, I'll pay this on my card, then leave $10 for the stylist and $5 for the girl washing my hair. The person on the till has little envelopes to sort it out.

I totally agree that it's awkward and annoying when you are from the UK, but at the end of the day, whoever said 'when in Rome' further up the thread was 100% correct.

Just because you don't agree with a system doesn't mean you should take that out on the random population of a country! If you don't like the customs of said country - bloody well stay at home!