About tipping in America

[AnnaLiza]

I was in LA last week and decided to get a haircut so I went to a salon near the hotel which had good reviews. The owner was the sole hairdresser and did a decent job at cutting my hair but it was by no means the best haircut I've ever had. Anyway, when I was paying ($85) his secretary asked "so are you leaving a tip for Nico today?". I must have gone purple as I was not expecting that...I then said "I don't think it's necessary" and hurried out as quick as I could, feeling like the meanest person ever, which I'm not at all.
I can just about undertstand tipping the waiter when there's no national minimum and they rely on tips for a living...but what's the justification for asking for a tip when you're a professional who charges $85 for a haircut? I find it very rude to be asked for money and then made to feel like shit for not forking out more. If you think $85 is not enough then just charge more and let people decide if they want to pay for your services.
Am I missing something?

You missed (or simply misunderstood) my point about its being inflationary and distorting.

If, say, an average professional wage in Country X is $20 a day, then almost all costs of living are in line with that - rents will be relative to that, food, utilities. Otherwise people couldn't pay them.

If suddenly there is an influx of American tourists chucking $10 notes around like confetti, then suddenly porters and beauty therapists are earning $150/day.

The most immediate negative effect is that now the porters and the beauty therapists have more money to spend and put prices up for everyone, so it becomes more of a struggle to survive on something like a fixed government salary.

The longer-term negative effect is that it dissuades children in school thinking about a career from doing anything other than tourist-facing jobs.

Tipping for everything means that service people will not care how shit their service is.

Which is why you leave a dime on those occasions.

And the converse is also very true. DH's dad worked out in the states for a long time. He used to eat out a lot and take clients out. So he'd go in somewhere, leave a big tip and make sure the staff remembered him. He'd then go in with clients and impress the hell out of them with out of this world treatment by the staff.

He used to get the British stereotype thing too on occasion, and got poor service. He has a few stories about how he made those people regret making a judgement about the level of service they were going to provide based on his accent alone.

You know, when I book the hotel and it advertises 24 hour concierge etc I book a room there as that is the service I want and it costs me more than the motel with a an ice machine in the car park that the local dogs can pee in. I don't then need to give him money for taking my bags from the car as that was why i booked there in the first place and why the room is so much more expensive. I've already paid for the service when the wine including corkage for the bottle was 4 times what I could buy the wine for across the street. And if I want to eat my meal then have a beggar accost me I can do that on any block at a hotdog stand

I apologise, Thinkingaboutit - I mis-interpreted your line about a living wage in Africa or America as a dig at my post about not tipping outside America.

You also know that when you book into that posh hotel in the states, they will expect you to tip.

I never do.

Because you are rude and don't make an effort to understand the cultural difference.

I have US relatives so they have explained the tipping rules to me.

The thing I don't understand is apparently you tip a higher percentage of the bill if you are in a more expensive restaurant, so in a standard one apparently it's 15-18% of the bill but in a posh one its 18 - 20%, seems weird when you are paying more for it anyway so they are going to get a good tip no matter.

Good point about eating out in US, people go on about how cheap it is and really by the time you have added the tax and the tips its dearer than the UK and IMHO not as good quality unless you go really high end.

I don't think it's about being rude or understanding cultural differences.

If tipping is compulsory then they should state that on the menu/bill/taxi door/hotel reception desk/whatever.

Americans can't blame tourists for their way of doing things that doesn't always work out for them.

American is, like us, a multi cultural society. We allow people to wear their own cultural dress, follow their own customs etc without getting stroppy about it. Respecting cultural differences works both ways.

people go on about how cheap it is and really by the time you have added the tax and the tips its dearer than the UK and IMHO not as good quality unless you go really high end.

Also depends on where you go and what the exchange rate is doing at the time though too. I've been on occasions where it really was cheaper and on occasions when it wasn't.

I have to say the service would have to be exceptional for me to tip 20%! But then maybe I'm very stingy. I have no problem tipping 15% in US but wouldn't in UK because it's not usually done.

If its the difference between feeding your kids and not feeding them, would you get stroppy?

I'd get stroppy with the government for taxing me on money that I don't actually have, rather than get stroppy with innocent tourists.

If they get stroppy then they get a tip from me. Read trip advisor in a couple of days!!

Worldcitizen Yeah, hope they only want a beer!

In the UK offering bar staff a drink (rather than money) makes the situation appear more equal between customer and bar staff. I think its something to do with it being awkward to offer money (therefore implying staff are low paid and not social equals with the person they served) and the staff possibly feeling awkward accepting a tip and therefore in debt to the customer...
Anyway, I read it in a book about British perculiarities which explained the ins and outs of tipping/drink buying a lot better than me!

I usually 20% in the US, but someone said I was over tipping as I was adding 20% on to the total bill including tax; whereas I should be giving 20% of the bill before tax is added. Anyone got an answer to this?

(I hate tipping but it is just an additional expense that I factor in when looking at restaurants to eat in etc. I tip 20% to slightly counteract the undertipping by other Brits (probably stupid but makes me feel better for the very poorly paid workers))

Outraged, you have a go at changing american politics and attitudes to taxation.... Good luck.

I have but one word to sum that whole debate up in. Obamacare.

I wish people knew a touch more about american politics before they came up with gems of wisdom like that. Sadly, its more a case of doing what you have to survive in the US far more than their status as a first world nation suggests. We forget just how privileged and lucky we are to live in a country with the securities and guarantees we have. We really do take it for granted; even protesting against injustices is made easier because of those privileges.

Oh gosh yes halfspam that's another issue about tipping in the US it's so darn complicated working out how much it should be.

In UK v simple - check that no service charge already added to the bill ( this has started happening more often and is sneaky and devious) if not tip 10% providing service was reasonable. If I don't have exactly 10% then will not get shouted at or glared at by waitress as I will still be tipping better than quite a lot of people who don't believe in the practice.

In US get calculator out, strip out tax, if you have used any coupons or discounts calculate what the full cost should have been ( yes this is the practice as have been to buffet using voucher with US person) then calculate tip percentage based on how ritzy the place is.

Think we may just self cater when we are in Florida next Easter.

Hmm, that doesn't really explain why you seem to think its acceptable for someone to get stroppy with a tourist for something they aren't responsible for.

I do know the American attitudes to tipping, but that doesn't make it right.

In the same way I don't have a right to walk through Westminster having a go at Japanese tourists who take up the entire street taking pictures of Big Ben, Americans don't have a right to have a go at tourists for not tipping. We would all be in a much worse position if we didn't have a tourism industry.

So Novack, you are happy to chuck a lot of money at posh hotels and restaurants, but not at the poorly underpaid people they employ.

If you read my posts you will see that for many, tips are their entire salary. I'm not begging you for extra for doing my job, in my culture your tip is my salary. By not tipping, you are expecting me to do my job for free. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the system, that is how it works, and to willingly refuse to go along with it is really rude.

You can dress it up as not 'believing' in tipping but ultimately it's just selfish behaviour.

Like I say Outraged. Your opinion on japanese tourists doesn't affect your ability to pay the bills or feed your children though.

If a tourist holds views that they have paid for their service in the US purely from the face value, they are wrong. They are ignorant.

I don't have time for people who don't make the effort to find out anything about a place they are visiting and then wonder why people get upset with their behaviour. Its not like tipping is a particularly unusual one. Tourists are responsible for educating themselves about cultural difference and indeed laws. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Brits who go to X country and get arrested for various standards of nudity or behaviour.

Respect the place you go. Some places are more tolerant than others. I am proud to be British precisely because, for the most part, we are more tolerant. I don't expect others to have the same level of tolerance. It would be nice, but thats just the way of the world.

Is selfish behaviour on the part of the companies and governments that encourage this, not on behalf of the customer who is already paying a reasonable or expensive price for a service.

Halfspam you can tip on the pre-tax total, especially if you're tipping 20%

But what's the point in paing a company for a service only to have to pay again?

This is very clearly one of those cases where the system, not the individuals are at fault.