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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be a bit disgusted that so many people seem to think it is ok not to pay their cleaner if they are going on holiday

121 replies

BranchingOut · 25/08/2012 20:46

I employ a cleaner for 2.5 hours a week and have done for a few years. Both the cleaner I currently use and her predecessor are young, single women who make a living by adding together a range of cleaning jobs. So they work for a number of families over the week and are generally renting a room in a houseshare. Getting by, but their income is vulnerable.

I am quite conscious that they are not making a fortune and so always pay consistently and employ them year round - including during any holiday we take and for any sick days/odd absences.

However, it has happened on more than one occasion that, at this time of year, they have come to me and either asked for a salary advance or for extra hours because they are short of cash and worried about bills. Each time the reason has been that 'other families have been away on holiday during the summer and therefore have not needed them'. So, one year I asked our cleaner to do some gardening in return for the extra hours she needed and I am about to bring forward the salary of the other for next month so that her bills will clear.

We live in a London borough where there are a lot of very wealthy people - yet this August/September situation has occured twice, with two separate cleaners and their client groups. Do families really think this is ok? I regard this as penny pinching of the worst kind - to 'save' on the salary of someone more vulnerable than themselves while they themselves are off on holiday.

AIBU/totally out of touch?

OP posts:
BlackOutTheSun · 25/08/2012 20:48

YABU

I'm guessing that they are self employed?

Nancy66 · 25/08/2012 20:49

No I don't think you are being unreasonable.

We pay our cleaner when we go away. She's lovely, does a good job and we don't want to lose her. We also give her a nice big tip at Christmas.

But I know a lot of people don't pay cleaners when they're not there - they see them as casual employees and argue that they pay for a service and there's no need to pay when the service isn't performed.

NoMoreWasabi · 25/08/2012 20:52

If self employed you don't have to use them whilst on holiday. However I always do still use them and wouldn't feel comfortable not.

muttonjeffmum · 25/08/2012 20:52

I clean for two families. One has both adults working and the other family are pensioners. The pensioners gave me holiday money when they went on holiday. The other family pay less per hour and wouldn't dream of paying if for some reason I can't clean. Kind of confirms a theory that I have had for years - the rich are rich 'cos they are tight.

ravenAK · 25/08/2012 20:58

If they're self-employed I can see the logic in not paying for a service you aren't booking. I don't pay my milkman for not delivering the milk when I'm on holiday!

That said, if we had a cleaner I'd probably suggest (s)he came in & did a deep clean of something that wasn't normally part of the deal instead of the unnecessary routine cleaning. Shampooing the carpets or washing down paintwork, sort of thing. It'd be up to them if they wanted to take me up on it or not...?

Lambzig · 25/08/2012 20:59

We still get our cleaner to come in when we are on holiday and would not dream of not still using her. She does 'big clean' jobs like really deep cleaning the bathroom or the oven so she gets paid and we get to come home to a super clean house.

PrideOfChanur · 25/08/2012 21:01

Surely you agree with cleaners when they start what will happen over holidays? My first reaction would be to expect to pay a cleaner only when they worked,and for their charges to be set to reflect this. I am self employed myself - and if I don't work,I don't get paid,if there is less demand in the places I work,I get paid less and when I go on holiday I don't get paid so I tend to assume that is what it is like for cleaners as well.

slowestwildebeast · 25/08/2012 21:02

I'm confused and don't have a cleaner, but why do you pay for them not to clean?
If they want a holiday do you pay while they're away?

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 25/08/2012 21:03

YABU.

Why should people pay for a service they aren't using? Cleaners are usually self employed, and I don't see any reason why they deserve to be paid differently to any other self employed person. My dh doesn't get paid when he doesn't work because he's contract, but he knew that when he started the job, so it's his (our) responsibility to budget for weeks or days that he won't get paid for.

If you are thinking that cleaners should get paid for work they don't do, then you may as well start giving your local Tesco the amount you usually spend on a weekly shop when you go away. It's the same thing, although obviously on a very different scale. Same principle though, you pay for what you use.

SeventhEverything · 25/08/2012 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon · 25/08/2012 21:08

"It's one of the downsides of self-employment."

This.

When I had a cleaner I would have her come in once over the fortnight we were away, on a day of her choice. I wouldn't pay for her not to clean though.

TraineeBabyCatcher · 25/08/2012 21:09

I agree with some of the other post. Its entirely down to the contracted hours, or agreed hours.

If they agree to work when required and theyre not required during holiday periods then theres nothing wrong.

Equally if theyre told that whenever the family is on holiday they wont be paid and they have agreed to that as part of their job terms then again nothing wrong.

If however they have agreed to work every week then it is unfair to then tell them theyre not needed.

Rubirosa · 25/08/2012 21:12

You don't employ them and you aren't paying them a salary.

slowestwildebeast · 25/08/2012 21:12

I think fair enough to say go in and do something else but if I wasn't using them then I wouldn't still pay while I was away.

Pleasesleep · 25/08/2012 21:14

"It's one of the downsides of self-employment."

Agree with SoupDragon - its just a consequence of self employment. You don't get paid when you don't work for almost all jobs with this kind of contract. your client says what services they want and you can accept those terms or reject them.

We have a cleaner 2 hours a week but we couldn't afford to pay her when she doesn't work - we would have to not employ her instead and I think that a lot of people are in a similar situation. I imagine that most cleaners would rather have a bit of work and miss out on holiday pay etc than lose the client.

slowestwildebeast · 25/08/2012 21:14

I am of course assuming people aren't employed for weekly jobs the just being dropped when not needed, that would not be fair.

TheUnsinkableTitanic · 25/08/2012 21:15

the joys of being self employed

when i don't work, i don't get paid

when i'm sick, i don't get paid

when it is a bank holiday and no work, i don't get paid

InkyBinky · 25/08/2012 21:15

I have always payed holidays. However, my current cleaner has a key and comes as normal. I get back from hols to a lovely sparkling house. Grin
I give a couple of weeks extra pay at Christmas too, I appreciate my cleaner and I like to think she likes me too.

LittleSugaPlum · 25/08/2012 21:16

I have a cleaner, and i wouldnt pay her if we went on holiday.

Im self employed, and unfortunatley its one of the downsides of being self employed.

LackingNameChangeInspiration · 25/08/2012 21:16

YABU

there are types of jobs where you don't get paid if you don't work - I have one of those jobs, you budget for the not working bit, the toss up is that these jobs are usually more flexible (like cleaning is - fits in around other commitiments etc)

I don't pay my weekly babysitter when I'm not around either!

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 25/08/2012 21:16

I doubt anyone working for 2.5 hours a week bothers with a tax return either or declares it or has an accountant or a business account. Nice little bit of black market economy.

MissM · 25/08/2012 21:17

My cleaner came in last week when we were away and I paid her. She didn't come the week before as she was away and I didn't pay her. I've never considered for a second that I would pay her for not working, and she has never had the conversation with me, or appeared to be peed off that we weren't paying her on those occassions. If she thought it was an issue I'd be happy to have the conversation with her and consider it, but I genuinely don't think it is.

I'm self-empoloyed too. If I don't work, I don't get paid. Nothing to do with being rich (we're not) or not.

thekidsrule · 25/08/2012 21:18

you sound a very kind and thoughtful employer op

dont ever change will you

im sure your cleaner values your generosity and goes that extra mile for you in return

LittleSugaPlum · 25/08/2012 21:19

jumping You are right, most cleaners do work cash in hand, usually whilst they claim benefts.

I doubt most of them are registered as self employed to be honest.

DameEnidSpink · 25/08/2012 21:19

That's the way S/E works I'm afraid.

I used to be S/E, if I didn't work I didn't get paid. I had to build into my pricing structure to allow for periods of not working