To be a bit disgusted that so many people seem to think it is ok not to pay their cleaner if they are going on holiday

[BranchingOut]

I employ a cleaner for 2.5 hours a week and have done for a few years. Both the cleaner I currently use and her predecessor are young, single women who make a living by adding together a range of cleaning jobs. So they work for a number of families over the week and are generally renting a room in a houseshare. Getting by, but their income is vulnerable.

I am quite conscious that they are not making a fortune and so always pay consistently and employ them year round - including during any holiday we take and for any sick days/odd absences.

However, it has happened on more than one occasion that, at this time of year, they have come to me and either asked for a salary advance or for extra hours because they are short of cash and worried about bills. Each time the reason has been that 'other families have been away on holiday during the summer and therefore have not needed them'. So, one year I asked our cleaner to do some gardening in return for the extra hours she needed and I am about to bring forward the salary of the other for next month so that her bills will clear.

We live in a London borough where there are a lot of very wealthy people - yet this August/September situation has occured twice, with two separate cleaners and their client groups. Do families really think this is ok? I regard this as penny pinching of the worst kind - to 'save' on the salary of someone more vulnerable than themselves while they themselves are off on holiday.

AIBU/totally out of touch?

im self employed as a cleaner and a childminder some people are mean usually the well off and some arent the ones who arent mean keep u going and when you get someone who is fair you drop the mean ones if u can Its strange how teaching assistants dont get paid in holidays either no one questions paying poeple on high wages for holidays and they even get expences the rich will always get richer oh and i am definetly registered as self employed in both jobs and have insurance cash in hand doesnt mean u are not honest if thats how peole pay thats ok i also get paid sometimes by cheque

I'm a cleaner - I'm not on benefits apart from Child Benefit [shrugs]

so you're paying for work undertaken
fair enough
cleaners are employed they aren't charity cases, who require monitoring to ensure they have adequate monies

And that's the best you can back it up with? Everyone you know, which equates to 90% of cleaners...

Its common knowledge domestic cleaning jobs are cash in hand, you would be very naive if you thought otherwise...

And no I don't expect to be paid whilst customers are on holiday - if they do it's a bonus and appreciated.

Don't employer a cleaner (wish we had that luxury) but no way would I pay someone for cleaning my house if I was away and they did not clean it!!! DH is self employed and he certainly does not get paid when we are away for example. You sound really really nice but I wonder if your good nature is being taken advantage of to be honest.

Well, as a person who employs someone else, I don't think I have to pay her for time she doesn't work, but she does get four weeks holiday, and her rate of pay reflects the work she does all year round.

If someone was employing me I would take into consideration that they may be taking holidays up to four weeks of the year, thus not need me, so reflect that absence in the hourly rate so I could cover myself over those four weeks also, if that makes sense. So if they aren't coping, they may need to increase their rates a little bit to save towards the four weeks?

SugaPlum Sat 25-Aug-12 21:59:46
Its not ignorance! Every person i know whos a cleaner, does it cash in hand.

Its common knowledge domestic cleaning jobs are cash in hand, you would be very naive if you thought otherwise...

it's a bit like me saying the self employed all fiddle their tax's and expenses which they dont and would never tar all with the same brush as you seem to be doing

what a horrible thing to say

i pay my cleaner when im away and i rarely expect her to come in if its not needed,i dont pay if shes on holiday.

i do pay direct to her bank and i know she declairs every penny she earns as i have been asked for evidence to provide to dwp/hb/ca shes a lovely and honest lady who does a very good job and has done my house for so long she budgets to have that income unless she chooses to have a holiday

thekidsrule Alot of self employed people do fiddle the tax.

This is going off the topic but...

When CSA chase fathers who are self employed, they more often than not only get 5quid a week out of them because they are self employed and fiddle their books!

I pay the lady who helps me around the house and do all of her tax and stuff for her, it goes to a payroll company and everything, so it is a bit of a generalisation to say cleaners work cash in hand dodging the tax.

In Ll my years of having music lessons, dd having music lessons and dh teaching music lessons I have never seen a receipt

Dh banks the cash weekly then dies a spreadsheet for self assesment

lovely of you to care but they are self employed (like me) and you take the rough with the smooth. I actually find the concept of holiday pay a bit baffling anyway tbh.

if you're a cleaner reliant on families that will inevitably go on summer holidays you need to plan for it.

yeah we agree that some se fiddle

yeah we agree that some cleaners fiddle

BUT not all or the majority are cheats,you cannot say that most are,by saying what you have you are making a sweeping statement and imo thats unfair on the majority

LittleSugaPlum but that's a self selecting group - people who need to be chased by the CSA and who dont want to pay over the minimum will BE self employed. emDoesn't mean there aren't lots of self employed parents declarIng properly and paying properly.

the If your self employed and doing things by the books, then whats wrong with giving reciepts and invoices?

Its the people that dont give reciepts or invoices that i would be suspicious of, not people that do.

When we are away, my nanny (who is my employee) gets paid, but my cleaner doesn't. I do however give her a little extra either side of our hols, and with the bonuses that she gets at Christmas and Easter plus the one off deep cleans she does every once in a while she more than gets compensated for her holiday pay. However, if I didn't give her a penny extra, I would still sleep well at night. YABU OP.

I don't pay my cleaner when I'm away on holiday. I am not her employer any more than I am the employer of my hairdresser or the checkout staff in Aldi or the man who cut down my tree last week; I have no contractual agreement, she provides a service and I pay for it, on a mutually agreed and convenient timetable.

YABU.

My cleaner is self-employed. Her company invoices me and I pay it directly into her bank account. She will be paying corporation tax at 20% on her profits, just like DH and I do on the profits of our business. He doesn't invoice for hours that he hasn't worked. I give her a bonus at Christmas and that goes through her company too.

You are not her employer OP, you are using a service that she provides.

I never have my cleaner not come while we are away though, there are always jobs to be done. If she can't come/is on holiday or sick then she doesn't invoice me so I don't pay.

LittleSugaPlum - you are ignorant, not everyone is out to cheat the system .

I don't pay my cleaner whilst we're away. She has full time job at Primark but does a few extra cleaning jobs. I'm pretty sure it's cash in hand that she doesn't declare.

My cleaner comes midweek and does ironing too so she still comes to the house even if we are away (only ever go for one week breaks)
I do pay her over Christmas when we usually are away for two weeks so she doesn't work, but I see that as a bonus/thank you rather than holiday pay. I get the impression not all her customers do this, and it's just my personal preference to do so - wouldn't think anyone was beibg unreasonable if not doing this.

If you start paying for holiday pay and talking about salary, maybe HMRC will say you are treating her as an employee and so you would have to operate tax/NI

I do think there is a difference between a cleaner who works of just an hour or so and a cleaner who does more than a few hours. My cleaner works 7 or 8 hours a week for me and it would not be fair for her to loose such an significant proportion of her earnings if I were to not pay her while I were away. I think it would be different if she only worked an hour or so and was just earning some extra cash. If this were the case I don't think I would be as likely to pay her while I was away.

The most important thing is to discuss and agree what will happen with holidays with any potential cleaners before hiring them.

cleaner works gets paid,doesn't work doesn't get paid
it's responsibility of cleaner to manage her workflow not anyone else

op hasnt come back