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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be a bit disgusted that so many people seem to think it is ok not to pay their cleaner if they are going on holiday

121 replies

BranchingOut · 25/08/2012 20:46

I employ a cleaner for 2.5 hours a week and have done for a few years. Both the cleaner I currently use and her predecessor are young, single women who make a living by adding together a range of cleaning jobs. So they work for a number of families over the week and are generally renting a room in a houseshare. Getting by, but their income is vulnerable.

I am quite conscious that they are not making a fortune and so always pay consistently and employ them year round - including during any holiday we take and for any sick days/odd absences.

However, it has happened on more than one occasion that, at this time of year, they have come to me and either asked for a salary advance or for extra hours because they are short of cash and worried about bills. Each time the reason has been that 'other families have been away on holiday during the summer and therefore have not needed them'. So, one year I asked our cleaner to do some gardening in return for the extra hours she needed and I am about to bring forward the salary of the other for next month so that her bills will clear.

We live in a London borough where there are a lot of very wealthy people - yet this August/September situation has occured twice, with two separate cleaners and their client groups. Do families really think this is ok? I regard this as penny pinching of the worst kind - to 'save' on the salary of someone more vulnerable than themselves while they themselves are off on holiday.

AIBU/totally out of touch?

OP posts:

OhTheConfusion · 27/08/2012 08:34

Surely it depends on the way you pay your cleaner?

My Dsis pays a self employed cleaner for 3hrs a week. If she is off sick/holiday etc then she does not get paid. If sister is on holiday she gets paid for one week (regardelss of the holiday length) to go in and do her usual and change the beds for their return unless Dsis has asked her to do a specific task (shampooing carpets, cleaning oven etc). This seems to be the norm and the lady is happy with this as she is self employed.

I use a small cleaning agency and if our usual lady is ill/on holiday they cover with someone else. We are also allowed to have four weeks 'service holiday' a year where we don't pay but have to give four weeks notice to terminate the contract.

Surely you should only pay someone if they are on hoilday/sick etc if YOU EMPLOY THEM?

Original poster

BranchingOut · 27/08/2012 09:02

Thanks everyone for contributions and thoughts. As usual, on a thread, you learn a little and get a sense of other people's viewpoints, sprinkled with the irritation that posting on AIBU inevitably provokes!

If you have a regular self-employed cleaner come to your house on a weekly basis, I think it is incredibly mean not to have her come when you are on holiday and pay her as usual. It is, however, just fine to ask her to do different cleaning tasks when you are away. I had a cleaner for many years when I was younger and single and she would come when I was on holiday for three weeks in the summer and spring clean. It was lovely!

Comments such as Bonsoir's, above, and the many similar on the thread (having cleaner in while away to do normal clean or deep clean etc as we do) make me feel that I am not totally out of step. I also take on board the fact that people may have originally agreed to take on a cleaner on a more 'ad hoc' basis - 5 hours one week, 1 next, nothing while away.

To those who feel I have 'more money than sense' - yes, great, isn't it?! Some people with more money than sense choose to spend it on face creams costing over £100, others on Dior for toddlers, maybe I choose to spend it on paying my cleaner all year round? :)

Yesterday I arranged to pay her early this month as she asked, so that her bills will clear during this summer period when she is experiencing these issues due to holidays. It doesn't cost us that much extra, but will be helpful to her. So I am happy to do it.

Have a nice bank holiday everyone.

OP posts:

FlouncyMcFlouncer · 27/08/2012 09:03

I've only read page one but it seems to me that the solution is to get her to visit as normal whilst you're away but to do things she wouldn't normally mange in her set hours, perhaps windows or deep-cleaning inside cupboard or something?

Eastpoint · 27/08/2012 09:09

I pay my cleaner year round as I am grateful to have someone honest, reliable and discreet come and help me with my housework. I consider myself lucky to be in that position and I know that she would really miss the income from working at my house. If I was hard up, I wouldn't have a cleaner, I'd do it myself.

zlist · 27/08/2012 09:09

YANBU - I still still pay my cleaner whilst I'm away but also expect her to come and clean (maybe do specific deep cleans in places). However, I do not pay her for her holidays (expect Christmas) and when she has any other time off as she is self-employed.

Liketochat1 · 27/08/2012 10:07

Gosh I wouldn't dream of not paying my cleaner when I go away (or even when she goes away. Everyone needs a holiday!). People who don't pay them when they go away are stingy and for the sake of a few quid are missing out on the better cleaners.

Loopy4got · 30/08/2012 22:20

I pay my cleaner when I am on holiday. We normally have holidays at the same time. She has a hard life. I give her presents and a large cash sum on her birthday and Christmas, only because I worked hard to create a comfortable life and can afford it. But she is a wee Darlin. I will never cope if she leaves me! And she won't, no one looks after her like me. God I'm brill! Now I am worried she will win the Rollover and leave me!! I wonder if she will employ me....

TellyBug · 31/08/2012 00:36

Being self-employed, and you not being their employer, cleaners do not get holiday and sick pay. Would you do their NI contributions for them? Think it's a bit distasteful do many are treating them as charity cases! Would you pay your builder for a bank holiday?

FWIW I sometimes get mine in while I'm away and sometimes don't. The oven and fridge got done last time.

ravenAK · 31/08/2012 02:43

I've both been a cleaner, & hired cleaners.

How would I like to be treated, as a self-employed cleaner?

'Raven, we're away for a couple of weeks in October, do you still want to come in? OK, here's a list of things that need doing, does that look fair enough?'

I'd want sensible notice so I could budget round it, & I'd prefer the option to earn the usual fee by doing extra stuff.

thebeesnees79 · 31/08/2012 08:32

my husband is self employed (director of a ltd company with just me & him on the books)
if he is sick or can't work for any reason we don't earn money. I understand what your saying op but that's life. we don't expect top ups when sick or needing days off.

Loopy4got · 31/08/2012 08:59

Mine is paid direct debit and she does tax and NI.
I don't treat her like a charity case, I show her compassion and spoil her on Christmas and birthdays because no one else in this world cares about her.

reasonstobecheerful · 31/08/2012 09:30

Well this cleaner is not on benefits and pays tax!!!! Bit of a sweeping generalisation. Cheek.

FoxSake · 31/08/2012 09:41

I read this briefly last night, I have a different problem, my cleaner does not want to come in to work. Because it was a BH Mon I asked her to come another day she nominates today, hooray I say. This morning I wake up to a text saying Friday is too close to Monday, you do not need me twice I shall just come Monday, I reply no I need you today, she replies no you don't I'll come Monday.

I have her for 3 hours but she refuses to come for 3 hours every week Instead doing 2 hrs one week then 3 the next. I have things she could be doing in that extra hour but no, she won't come. She positively loves it when we go away, I want her to come when we're away and do extras but she won't. I pay her £10 ph and I know she hates cleaning for a living she makes no bones about that but I'm a nice employer I think and way more understanding than most, dh would have sacked her ages ago.

FoxSake · 31/08/2012 09:45

I think she may have to go . I've never had to sack anyone before our last cleaner was with us for years and only left because we moved too far to make itt worth while.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 31/08/2012 09:50

Fox you aren't her employer. Tell her you don't need her services after (whatever notice period is in your contract). The end.

Rosebud05 · 31/08/2012 10:02

OP, I don't think you're totally out of touch at all. You sounds thoughtful and considerate towards others.

We used to have a cleaner and I always paid her through the year. Didn't occur to me not to, there was always something to do, even if the house hadn't been lived in. We didn't have a written contract and I have no idea whether she was registered as self-employed etc in fact had no idea whether she stayed the allotted time or lots of other things.

I agree with you that it's the worst sort of penny pinching to cut the pay of someone vulnerable; ironically, the families concerned were probably off on some exotic holiday.

Loopy4got · 31/08/2012 10:06

Oh Fox am in a cold sweat reading that! I would be in bits if I woke up and realised she wasn't coming in. Nightmare. That means you either have to hoover your own carpets, dust and sweep your floors or put up with it til Monday. I would go away for the weekend! Your cleaner is managing you, and it should be the other way around.

ZillionChocolate · 31/08/2012 10:10

I pay my cleaner more per hour than she would earn as an employed cleaner. The downside of this for her is that she has to sort out her tax and NI and take the hit for sickness/holidays/cancellations.

witchwithallthetrimmings · 31/08/2012 10:11

i think if you expect the cleaner to be around after you get back from holiday then there is a presumption that this is a regular job- hence it is not fair and one sided to to pause this informal contract for a week or so.

QuintessentialShadows · 31/08/2012 10:18

I have a lovely cleaner, with a lot of pride. She charges £8,5 per hour, and will not accept bonuses. I did however have her spring clean our entire house and our rented property too prior to going on holiday, which would have amounted to a months work from me, so I dont feel bad. But the thought has crossed my mind.

I guess I will give her a nice voucher for Christmas.

FoxSake · 31/08/2012 10:39

She is 100% the boss in this relationship, I asked her to get rid of the cobwebs and she just ignores me, when she leaves I run about doing all the little jobs she should be doing but doesn't like under the sofas and the cob webs.

i'm a sucker for a sob story, I shan't go into it but she has one and is very sweet, I think .Another family she worked for, my friend has moved overseas so I know she has lost work and I feel bad for her. But I think she needs to go, she told me last week casually that's she's away for 3 weeks in sept, I'm going back to work in sept after mat leave and will really be struggling to adjust with school run, 3 kids job and dh working away, I need to be able to cover her.

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