to be furious with MIL over this?

[MarchelineWhatNot]

Lots of history, although will try to keep it brief. Relations with ILs are somewhat strained, entirely due to the fact that we have had problems with SIL and have had to cut her out of our lives. I won?t go into details, suffice to say that we have very good reason for doing so.

Anyway, SIL has recently had a baby. Out of the blue, MIL announced that she was coming to visit us. She was very, very quiet to begin with, but as soon as she got DH on his own, she confronted him saying how disappointed she and SIL were that we had not acknowledged the new baby. DH let rip (not like him at all!) and made it very clear that we will have nothing to do with SIL due to her behaviour in the past and her absolute refusal to apologise or change her ways. He explained that unfortunately, this means that we will not have a relationship with the baby either. This has been long overdue and I am proud of him for finally standing up to MIL over this issue. I should add that we have always said that we are willing to forgive and forget, as long as SIL acknowledges her behaviour and apologises and promises to change.

MIL seemed to accept this, but then I caught her talking to our DS about the new baby, banging on about how she is his family and they are cousins and showing him photos, etc. Then it seemed that every time mine and DH?s backs were turned, she was talking to DS about the new baby.

MIL?s parting shot was to give DS a photo album full of photos of SIL?s baby and telling him to take some out and put them in frames in his bedroom.

Since then, all DS can talk about is the new baby and when he will see her. I tried to explain as sensitively as I could that it was unlikely that we will see her as we don?t talk to SIL anymore because of her bad behaviour. Cue lots of tears and ?why can?t I see her? She?s my cousin, you are trying to split my family up!?. He is currently upstairs hysterical and clutching the photo album.

I just don?t know what to do, but I am furious with MIL. We were going to deal with this issue in our own good time. How dare she interfere like this.

I am so angry, but AIBU? And what can I do? Thanks.

It never ceases to amaze me when people who are lucky enough to come from normal, functional families get all holier than thou with people who come from dysfunctional families, as if the dysfunction is their fault somehow and they just need to try harder to make it all work out. I don't understand why they can't grasp that not all families are loving and healthy to be around.

Marcheline your sister-in-law sounds, frankly, hideous and I would not want any contact with her either. Sadly, that would also mean no contact with the baby too but as the child will never know you/your family it will never miss you either so there's no need to worry on that score.

I would be incandescent with rage your mother-in-law in your shoes. She has put her own selfish beliefs and needs above those of your DS and has really upset him in the process. I would be cancelling the Christmas visit pronto and explaining to her exactly why - deeds have consequences, she needs to know this.

I am of the belief that dysfunction bleeds from generation to generation if you let it and that your sister-in-law's toxic behaviour has probably been learnt from one or both of her parents, or, at the very least, has been fostered by their pandering to her. I would be very surprised if they ever let up the relentless nagging for you to have a relationship with her and my guess is that you will eventually end up not having much of a relationship with them as they have now started on DS as well. You need to protect your DS from this toxicity and concentrate on building a happy family life of your own. It is sad when people are like this and it takes great courage to walk away but you really don't have to like or mix with people who share the same genes as you if it causes you grief. There are plenty of other lovely people to share your life with.

I second everything that CleopatrasAsp* says above.

Marcheline I'm in a very similar position, except MIL has died. FIL has now effectively ended contact with DH because he won't make up with SIL. SIL doesn't know our children at all and PIL always thought this was a terrible injustice, but how could she when she has no relationship with DH? Why would we let her when she would use it to undermine and isolate DH in his own nuclear family, mock and belittle him to his own children and extend treating DH like some kind of pet/servant/house elf to treating his children like her possessions?

People who suggest the children can have a relationship when the parents don't are being very naive, I think.

There is a lot of very good advice here for those of us in the early days of toxic family cut off. I've found it immensely helpful.

CleopatrasAsp's post is so true.

Posters from normal families: don't you think that if we could just get along and let it all go back to being pally pally we wouldn't? We'd all jump at the chance to live with normal people in our lives, that love us, that want to see us happy, that want to be there for us, through good times and bad.

For some of us, the exact pole opposite is true, but WE are the only ones in our family that aren't nasty, manipulative and jealous. For us we pass lifetimes thinking WE are in the wrong. We suffer depression, abusive relationships, low self esteem, anxiety problems.... all as a direct result of the way we are mistreated, neglected by the people who are supposed to love and care for us. The fear, obligation and guilt we go through to find freedom from their damage of us is excruciating. We'd do anything to NOT have to cut our family out of our lives, the pain of doing so is the worst pain you can imagine.

Marcheline, don't take the trip to the SIL country, just transfer the tickets to somewhere else, there is time to do so, please just do it. You and your H don't need to be guilted into anything, or made to feel bad for standing up for yourselves/your family.

I will have to boycott Christmas with my mum this year, because I know SisterDearest will be going. There will be ructions, but I made up my mind that 2012 would be the year that I would focus ONLY on those people in my life that have been supportive of me, my friends. Those that have abandoned me time and time again in my very darkest hours, in my moments of abject need, AND HAVE TOLD me they did so on purpose, just to drive the pain home.... I have no time for, ever again.

Their family will have no contact with me, that's a shame for the DC, but those are the consequences, and the truth will out. I have done nothing wrong.

Marcheline , you and your H have done nothing wrong.

My DS is 6, 7 in December, he knows that I won't be seeing my sister again, and he knows it's because she has done some really dreadful things to me, to hurt me. he's OK with that. I have talked to him about how sad it is, how painful it is for us to have to realise that we can't see his cousin(s) any more, but that being with someone who did what she did is a price I won't pay.

I've told him that we will make NEW family with our friends.

Your MIL's behavior was disgraceful, you need to get the album and have Dh hand it back to her and tell her not to plant lies and hate in your child, that she has him upset and through not fault of your family. SIL has caused all this trouble and MIL is bringing it to roost on you and yours.
No way I'd be heading there for Christmas if this is how she manipulates a 6 year old child. Shame on her

Unbelievable! I would be absolutely furious too. I would also be inclined to cut her out if she is capable of being so manipulative. You would certainly not be unreasonable to refuse to spend Christmas with the ils at the very least.
Maybe your son will calm down and forget about this as time passes fingers crossed he's only 6. Agree with karma, it's up to you who your child has a relationship with, not your interfering nut job of a mil.

What California said is spot on.

Thanks so much for all your replies. I am going to send an email to MIL and I need your help... please. I don't want to be confrontational, I just want to point out that she has left us with a big problem in that DS is now very upset. We wanted to deal with this in our own way and are a bit annoyed by having to deal with it like this. I also want to tell her not to mention SIL or the new baby when she speaks to DS again. Have I any right to say this?

Incidentally, after DH's outburst the other day, he has reverted to type and will not deal with this at all, so it is left to me.

I think you do have a right to say that but you should push the issue with your DH. This is his mother, he should be sorting it out.

I don't know about being non-confrontational - I think I would have to be but by asking what she hoped to achieve by her actions. Did she want DS to be upset? Did she really believe that upsetting him would achieve anything beneficial? Does she imagine for a moment that a 6yo boy is going to be able to travel 1000s of miles to visit someone who his parents don't want to know, to see a baby that they aren't going to meet? Just ask the hard questions as though you expect answers.

I imagine that she thought your DH would just cave in when she applied to him, as though it's only you that is the problem - and when that was thwarted, she moved onto the next likely softie, your DS; embroiling him, at 6, in her devious manipulations is pretty shit.

I don't think you can stop her talking about her other grandchild to your DS, except by telling her she's no longer welcome to visit either, since she likes to use children as pawns in adult situations, which is Not On.

Very :( for you. Obviously it is sad for your MIL that her children don't get on, but since she has fostered this behaviour in her daughter, allowed her to get away with it and still doesn't believe she's in any way at fault, then Too Bloody Bad. And good for your DH sticking up for you.

OP - I understand totally, except in my situation it's my own sister. My parents are very upset we don't talk and have tried to force me to talk to her. Like you, I've said I'm willing to brush it under the carpet for the family's sake if my sister apologises for what she said and did. My sister feels she's done nothing wrong. I've always caved to their pressure before but this time I said no, there comes a time when enough is enough and I won't have my child believing that behaviour is appropriate and that I had my kid, she was theirs and they could deal with her. "but your child won't know her aunt". She has an aunt and uncle who live the other side of the country and she sees one of them once a week. She's only missing one aunt.

My mother had been very ill so I never told them my side of the story until mum felt well enough to ask me. She'd had 7 months of my sisters lies and I proved every one of them wrong. At that point I also informed my mum what my sister had been saying about her "darling niece". My parents haven't picked sides, but they understand now.

Like others have said, and even if it were my mum who tried that, I'd go mad. Make DH say what needs to be said but that is just batshit crazy.

You are so NBU, burn the album then e-mail MIL:

"We welcomed you into our home recently. You know we are estranged from SIL, you know the reasons why. Whether or not you think this is reasonable really isn't the point here - we are adults and make our own choices which you need to respect.

You have basically totally abused our trust by confusing our CHILD. It is not your place to tell him about his new cousin - that is our job and we get to choose what to tell him about our adult, family relationships, not you. You have now left us in a situation where our child is distressed because and we have to deal with it. That was not your place and if you want to continue having a relationship with our DS you need to respect our wishes and not talk to him about SIL and the baby.

We are supposed to be spending Christmas together. Can we reiterate - we do not want to see SIL. We do not want to see her baby. Our DS will NOT be seeing his cousin. If you cannot accept this, absolutely, we will not be spending Christmas with you. This is not negotiable. Perhaps you can have a think about how you want things to go from here but at the moment we feel it is probably best if we don't spend Christmas with you". OP

OP - I agree with everything you say.

The other side of this though is MIL has grandchildren, not just one grandson. She should be free to talk about all her grandchildren, they are cousins, they are related. I don't agree with what she is saying though.

OK, so I thought it would be best coming from DH. He said he would talk to her. Needless to say, he hasn't. I asked him about it last night and he said he would talk to her after his DF's birthday, which is in September. He always, always does this! The MIL upset me once before, quite badly, and I asked him to talk to her about it for a whole year and he didn't. He just kept putting it off.

I told him last night that I thought he always put his family before me and right now I didn't feel that he really loved me. He just swore at me, then walked off.

Consequently, I have spent all night sat on the sofa, not sleeping, worrying about how I am going to put up with a lifetime of this. I don't think I can. I just want to divorce him.

I am 35 weeks pregnant

Oh jeez Marcheline...No practical advice, I'm just so sorry.

Only advice I can give is HE can sleep on the sofa for swearing at you! You're 35 weeks PREGNANT! Boot him out of bed.

Oh goodness.

It can all be so complicated, can't it?

Poor you and poor DS. What can your MIL have hoped to achieve?! It's not as though DS can pop down the street to see his cousin.

I have a friend whose DH has cut off contact with his entire family. (I don't quite agree with his reasons tbh but he is an adult and that is his choice.) My friend has told her ILs that they are welcome to come see her and the children and long as they let her know ahead of time so that her DH can choose whether to be there or not, and they can't respect that, so they currently have no contact.

So sorry you're going through this, especially while so pregnant. :(

DH said that he believes what she did was not malicious. That's the end of it, as far as he's concerned.

OP, I was very pregnant when our relationship with my ILs broke down, and like you want to, I went into battle because ,for the most part, my DH clams up.
I think it's really common in families where there is a difficult parent for the adult children to remain in a child like position, afraid to take their parent on.

I really feel like I made a mistake, rowing directly with them. My DH shared all my opinions and has always backed me up, but HE should have done the talking. Everything is blamed on me.

I have no contact, DH takes the DC to see them every few months, and they have never been inside my home. It's the most powerful thing I do. After the last row (39 weeks pregnant) I stopped trying to win the argument and walked away.

They still start arguments with DH but I never engage. As someone up thread said, that damage in toxic families goes down the generations. My MIL doesn't speak to a single relative of hers, all her sisters have wars with their adult children. Do I want this to drip into my family? Do you?

It's so much more intense when pregnant. You poor thing. My advice is stop trying to win the argument and step away.

Remind DH to protect you and his DC
Take care of your own family and don't go for Christmas!

Oh no! You should at least have got the bed if you are pregnant! You poor thing.

YANBU. I'd be raging in this situation.

I wonder if your pregnancy is a factor in your DS being so upset? Perhaps he thinks he would feel about all babies/cousins the way that people will be telling him he'll feel about the new baby you are about to have?

One thing is, once he has a new sibling the interest in the cousin is likely to diminish. I think putting the book of photos somewhere he can't see it will also be out of sight, out of mind, helpful.

I probably wouldn't bother writing an email to anyone because absolutely nothing is going to change. Your MIL won't see the flaws in her behaviour, your SIL will never apologise. (Sorry, anyone waiting for a demanded apology is going to be waiting a loooonnnggg time. Just ain't going to happen.) I think all it would do is stir things between you and DH and add to the litany of family bad feeling.

In a few weeks time you should definitely cancel going for Christmas. Cite new baby issues and go somewhere else without telling them.

The anger you feel toward DH is so damaging and such a waste of energy. Everything should be about your imminent birth, not about some controlling bat of a MIL.

The siblings never seem to get on in these families because the parents have played them off against each other for years. Look at what a pro your MIL is- a 6 year old talking about family breakup- unbelievable!

You need to circle the wagons and mind your relationship with your DH. Theses inlaw arguments are a cancer in a relationship. Be clear about what kind of contact you're willing to have, and try not to tell your DH what to think.

I believe that if you have no trust, you have no relationship. Do you trust MIL? Does DH trust SIL?
With regards to my finally walking away from my battling ILs, I always say- You choose the behaviour, you choose the consequences.

Take back your bed, woman!

Thanks guys. No-one said that I should go ahead and divorce him, so I shall take that as me being tired, hormonal and over-emotional .

Actually, about Christmas... we need to give the ILs some money for something and DH told them that we are going to be a bit stretched for cash, and would they rather we came for Christmas and paid them afterwards, or pay them beforehand but not come for Christmas. They said they'd rather have the money . So we are not going for Christmas after all...

Also, DH is a bit upset because the MIL announced that she wouldn't be coming to see our new baby, as she had used up all her leave for the year (about 5 weeks) visiting SIL and her baby .

If your new baby is the same gender and looks similar, tell DS that Nanna had 'magic pictures' of his new sibling and you didn't want to run it for him.

Your DH owes you a HUGE apology for swearing at you and YOU sleeping on the couch. Wake him up and boot him out I say.

Awwww, your poor DH, that does make me feel for him a bit, that must sting.

If all this drama is going on then it's probably best to get out of any financial entanglements ASAP.

YABU. The baby is an innocent in all this. Don't know why you're punishing an innocent because of her mother. Really hate people who cut out nieces and nephews out of their lives.

What?! The baby isn't being 'cut out' - she lives thousands o miles away and is completely unaware of the OP.

Why do you 'hate' people who cut nieces and nephews out, anyway? Is there some special reason why nieces and nephews should be more exempt from being cut out than anyone else?