To be a bit shocked that every one of my friends has done this?

[benetint]

I've spoken to all my friends that have older children about how they have selected schools for their dcs. Nearly all of them have said (in confidence) that they have basically hung around outside the gates at chucking out time to see how the parents and kids coming out look/behave/sound.

Is it time to get a new set of friends? Or would you join them?

I would do it but luckily don't have to as reputation/ results speak for themselves round here.

Unfortunately it's catholic or die

Perhaps checking the Ofsted reports on each school would be a better idea.

I live in Scotland where we have catchment areas. Dd goes to nearest school. I did read the last HMIE report though which was excellent.

I do not know any one who has done this.

I chose my ds secondary based a number of reasons. Based on your friends method ds would be in a different school.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of on-the-ground research in addition to reading the Ofsted reports.

Neither do I. Ofsted only goes so far.

It is a view of the school, but then I usually judge the all boys school in our area by their behaviour in the shop near the school.

I can't see a problem with this.

Every parent I know, for secondary, does the same thing.

Ofsted, as any school employee will tell you, is not representative of the school. It is a snapshot of a few days.

Best way to select a school - go visit and get a feel for it. If you don't get the vibe, don't go there.

I don't really see the problem?

I think it's a fair judgement of a school to be honest.

Some of my friends did this and chose the "outstanding" school. I went with gut feeling and didn't, knowing that some of the families at my chosen school had, erm, interesting home lives. For five years I've had pitying stares and arm strokes and the head tilt "could you not get in to xxxx school" and "never mind I'm sure it'll be okay" and even "how will you cope with the chavs?"

The "outstanding" school just crashed, spectacularly, into special measures.

I am not slightly enjoying their panic oh no not me

In addition to visits and reading OFSTED reports I think it's a good idea.

I think ofsted's something to be very careful about tbh. Talking to a variety of people is much more reliable. I think your friends are spot on. Look at how the kids behave when they are representing their school. It shows how much respect they have for the place.

Never heard of anyone doing this.

We just put dd in the nearest school when we moved BUT we moved from south london to rural south norfolk so it all seemed amazing in comparison!!! (Sorry don't mean to london bash.. )

I wouldn't hang around deliberately, but if I bump into a group of children on the Tube/bus I check out their uniforms vs their behaviour.

What is the reason for this? Are people afraid that their child might catch "chavitis"? How does the children and parents make a school a good or bad option?

Are you serious honeytea ? The attitude and behaviour of the pupils is way more important than just about anything else. Your child might be bright and eager and enjoy learning, but put him or her in a class with half a dozen idiots who have been told since nursery "those bastards can't tell you what to do son, don't you take none of their shite, school's a waste of time" and see how much your child learns... That's if they don't get bullied for being a "swot" or a nerd/geek.

I have to say that this would get you to choose the wrong school where I live.

This will tell you how middle class a school is, but it won't tell you how good the pastoral care is or how much progress the kids make there.

I read league tables properly. And love that they now say how much progress low / middle / high attainers make.

But I wouldn't change my friends if I had any if they did this :)

Pom - No. The attitude of the head teacher and staff is way more important than anything else.

You can't tell what behaviour is like inside school from observing it outside school.

honeytea haven't done it (eldest is 2) but I would think schoolgate behaviour is indicative of behaviour management in the school, if the kids are respectful of their peers/surroundings?

Let's be honest the second most powerful influence on kids after parents are the friends they make and their families. Nothing to do with poor or rich, nuclear or single just good parenting.

You can't tell what behaviour is like inside school from observing it outside school.

Oh I don't know - I worked in a catholic boys school with dreadful discipline, and is regularly on the local paper (and national press) for stabbings. What goes on inside, spills outside.

I didn't do this. I'm an ex-teacher, and the way that people (kids and adults) behave at the end of the day isn't indicative of what they are like when lessons are in progress.

I did take a lot of notice of the opinions of other parents of children at particular schools, and anything that popped up in the local press.