To be a bit shocked that every one of my friends has done this?

[benetint]

I've spoken to all my friends that have older children about how they have selected schools for their dcs. Nearly all of them have said (in confidence) that they have basically hung around outside the gates at chucking out time to see how the parents and kids coming out look/behave/sound.

Is it time to get a new set of friends? Or would you join them?

Quite true seeker-seeing the boys from a well known independent school put me off it completely! They may have got good results but I didn't like the behaviour.

I do suspect that the independent and grammar schools I mention are so high pressure, and so strict on behaviour inside the school gates that the kids can barely help themselves exploding when they get out from under the thumb!

I think its an inspired idea and I do exactly the same when I pick a secondary school for my son.

When I lived in my old house I used to ocassionally watch playtime at my son's school from my son's bedroom window. It showed me that the school took bullying seriously and actually cared about the children. I was able to watch my son playing (without him or the school knowing) and knew it was bullshit when my son said he had no one to play with.

In fact my son's school has an open morning once a year where they invite the parents to watch the teaching.

The boys only grammar that my ds goes to fits with that description Seeker, they will regularly come out of school and be shoving each other around or have each other in head locks as they walk down the road. But you can see that it's good natured banter between teenage boys, and they are all very polite and respectful too.

I'd pick that over a school where you see the students coming out of school smoking or riding their bikes on a pavement where there are pedestrians, which is what happens outside another local school.

The children at our nearest comp (boys and girls) seem to be a lot more sensible, but their ties are removed the second they are out the gate and the skirts are very short. I think that's just normal harmless teenage behaviour tbh.

I think it gives an insight into what behaviour might be like in the playground/away from adult supervision so is more accurate than Ofsted reports.

I did this with my children's schools and it's pretty accurate.
Their first school was in a deprived area. Some swearing and smoking by parents but they told their children off for bad language, greeted each other in a friendly way and the children came bounding out. Local Pcso is not at this school any more than at other local schools including the church one.

The current school had children coming out laughing and smiling as the parents walked to their cars and politely drive home. (No road rage etc)

My oldest is going to the secondary and skirts are shortened and ties loosened well away from school. Everyone traipses home in groups, no signs of smoking/fighting on way home /to school.(I know it happens at the local skate park though!)

I know someone who went to see the cars parked outside the school at pick up/dropping off time! That's totally inconclusive even if you drive a BMW

crazygracieuk - I think looking at the cars is just a more blatant way of doing what is being advocated by many people on this thread. Is this school mostly full of working class or middle class people? All the bus stop behaviour inspections, judging shortness of skirts, volume of make-up, etc. is no different. No doubt a quick check of the ethnicity mix of the kids coming out is also part of the value judgment being formed, although I doubt anyone will admit to it.

Looking at cars to judge how rich or poor a schools intake is is a completly different thing to looking at the behaviour of pupils or parents to judge whether the school is able to provide children with a good sense of respect and social responsibility.

If a school is surrounded by BMWs but the students come out swearing and smoking, then that school is unlikely to be preferable to a school surrounded by old ford focuses when the students come out sensibly without creating a disturbance to anyone else who happens to be on the pavement at the same time.

I don't think it's about working class v middle class for most people, it's about wanting to send your child to a school where the other parents have values and standards of behaviour simelar to your own.

I think it's a fantastic idea. I shall add it to my list of things to look at when applying for schools :o

It depends on whether you're looking, in order to be judgmental about car values, and infer the general financial status of parents, or something more meaningful.

I'm not interested in how much money the other parents have. I am, however, very interested in whether children get beaten up by other children just outside the school gates. I'd check for how the children treat each other.

I didn't use this method to choose a school, but it did make me cross a couple off the list! I didn't even go to the open day for the second closest school because of the amount of fishwife screeching and smoking (from the parents) and disruptive behaviour (from the children) at the close of each school day.

It's not about money or class, it's about lifestyle and aspirations. Children become part of the school culture and are subject to peer pressure. I want my children to learn alongside people who want to do something with their lives and not see education as the enemy.

I did this even at primary level. If you in live in London esp where i live,u in reality have very little choice, unless you can access faith schools.

So when you go to a school&see the police van&half a dozen teachers 'escorting' the pupils to the bus stops-you have to think is this an environment my dd will survive in,let alone learn in!!

I drive past two potential secondary schools every day. Some of the decision is out of my hands though as we live in an 11+ area. The grammar school children do appear to be better behaved, however there are a lot more children at the other school so hard to gauge accurately.

Ofsted is a useful tool but isn't the be all and end all... many schools have average/poor ofsted due to their intake, the school is actually fairly successful in bringing children on.

I think it's a good idea to go and have a look but I wouldn't base a decision completely on what you see. Word of mouth from other parents is often the best gauge of how children are doing at school ime.

I fully intend to do this myself when the time comes,tbh

I don't see it as a problem at all, in fact it's a good idea.

I think it is valid as part of the overall picture of the school. I wouldn't be overly keen on sending by children to the local academy that has 3 police officers outside at home time.

by = my

I have done this when being interviewed for a job for various large companies

Arrived a bit earlier or hang around a bit later to see the people coming in and out of the reception area. Gives you an initial view of the culture of the place.

I've done it by default - as I take ds to nursery and then home or elsewhere with dd, I walk with then cross the streams of kids going to at least four local schools, followed by the parents/childminders going home again.

It's been fairly reassuring, tbh, given that in my oversubscribed area ds will go to whichever school is forced to expand this year. Kids seem happy and reasonably behaved, and they and the adults are capable of chattering away in English (the adults generally chat in other languages on their way back). The general impression (supported by parents I talk to) is that many local parents may not have much education but they want to make sure their kids get one even if they're not too sure how to help. The Catholic school either starts at 9.15 or has a lot of latecomers though.

Most of the secondary kids locally seem to be typical mouthy teenagers who are quite sweet really.

Given that Ofsted reports of schools and nurseries I know well have been totally at odds with reality, I'm not using them as any more than a pointer for questions to ask. I have to apply for ds this winter and will probably just list the 6 closest in-borough schools in order, and hope for the best.

I've been put off a secondary school for dd by the way the kids behave on the way to school. I have to drive through a part of town near two schools every morning as ample opportunity to study the kids as I'm stuck in traffic.

Kids from one school look scruffy, wear trainers, smoke, fight, run across the road making cars do emergency stops with no acknowledgement. The other kids are much smarter and are walking calmly to school.

It is very important to see how they behave when not under supervision IMO.

ha ha what is the usual mantra bought out on mn time and time again "i dont judge" not in this case it seems

I always judge so it is nothing new. The most enlightening thing about a school is how they behave without supervision.