To be fed up with my mother

[Netguru]

Long post to try to avoid drip feeding.

Ten years ago my then husband and I decided to add in an annex to our home to rent out for extra income. Finding out about our plans, my mother who lived locally asked if she could move into it and, in return, allow me to rent her house out instead. Whilst the rent would even itself out, she would benefit from no bills and security and I would benefit from child care. She was then 62.

My husband and I divorced and I remarried, buying a new house with my new partner (now husband). He took on the dog, three kids (then 18, 11 and 9) and my mother - who expressed a wish to move with us. We found a house with a small annex (18ft by 10 ft) and said we would enlarge it as and when we could afford to.

Paying the bills for mum turned into two newish cars, various holidays, sky, phone etc. She got older and was in pain from a bad back, so she looked after the children less and less, often resorting to taking them to McDonald for tea rather than cooking a meal - or leaving the eldest to sort out things for the two younger ones (now 21, 13 and 10). Swimming lessons were 'too difficult' driving 5 miles to school 'too expensive on petrol' so a credit card was provided for that.

Her friends come to see her, I leave them alone. People come to see us and she trundles over, uninvited, and sits down in the middle of the conversation. I know she liked the company but she has clearly forgotten that there need to be boundaries.

It felt like we were paying more and more with mum doing less and less. She was moaning to sll her freinds that she was tired and the children were too much work yet she wouldn't do anything but the minimum eith them no baths, no homework, no clubs. I get home at 8pm when I work so her reluctance means that none of this gets done at all. So bad have been thinking about quitting work for a while.

She was getting older and more frail so I could live with

So why the post?

She is a mild hoarder and her flat got more and more crammed with stuff. I have not been allowed up there for months and she knew I would be irritated at the mess. I don't want her to throw away her memories or keepsakes but I don't see why she needs tubs of used batteries, piles of cardboard boxes or three bloody washing up bowls in a room with one sink. Even so, that is her business - or it would have been if she was happy but she wasn't. So we've blown our savings getting the place extended - more space to fill with crap. Hoping it would make her happy and stop the constant 'poor me' routine.

No such luck. She phoned me at work today to say she was going to buy another tv. The building work is not yet finished, the garage is full of her stuff, her flat is full, the new extension isn't finished. I can't pay my credit card bill this month because of the work, yet she was going to go and buy a 2nd tv which doesn't even have a room to go in to. It's a small thing I know - but I snapped.

Why now? I'm trying to juggle builders, decorators, get carpets done when you can't even see the floor in the place and she not only wants to buy more but has to call me at work about it and then act all hurt when I say wait a few days.

I am tired of being the adult. I am tired of saying no. I am tired of being the bad guy.

Before I snapped today I have tried to talk to her. I'm pretty useless at confrontation and she is even worse. 'Please give me a little privacy in my home' is interpreted as 'we don't want you'. 'Please stop moaning about us to everyone' is 'we are ungrateful'

I know we benefit from having another adult in the house. Going back to the original agreement, we made it on the basis that all would be better off - not just financially but in every way. I feel I have done my bit but she has done less and less and is also unhappy.

I need her to take one child to school each day, cook something for the two of them at night, sit while they do their homework (twice a week) and make sure the boy has a bath occasionally. If a childminder/au pair agreed to do these basic things and then didn't I'd give them notice.

What on earth do I do?

If you knew that your mother wasnt the type to cook and clean then why exactly did you let her come to live with you?.....

Sorry but I dont buy the oh we are too poor for me to give up work-you have the income from another house and a dh who works many hours and you can afford hols for your mum and a car and extensive building work without getting yourself into debt-you are NOT poor....

You must change this situation - it is eating away at you. Can you draw a list of possible solutions (E.g. - she moves back into her own house/ she stays but you draw up a list of conditions - financial and the help you expect)

You said you were angry she locked the annexe - but like it or not it is her home, and she is entitled to her privacy too. It doesn't sound like either of you are happy. I also think you might be not realising how her age affects her. My mum is 72 and seems younger, but I can see that things tire her now like they never used to. Also getting a teenager to bath may not be as easy as you say!!

Personally I would be going down the - mum moves out/ I get childcare route, because the stress of me getting no privacy (you said she just walks in/ joins you if you have visitors etc) would be too difficult for me to live with. I need to be able to switch off in my own home.

I have read the whole thread and by view has shifted since reading your latest post OP.

You make it quite clear that you consider your mother was quite lazy and not 'up to scratch' while bringing you up... So what on earth made you think it was a good idea to involve her in childcare for your children?!

The other thing which strikes me is that while your children only need minimal 'looking after' now, when your mother started this at age 62, your youngest two were 2 and 3 years old! That's a really tough workload.

I think you got yourself into this because at the time it saved you a shed load of money on childcare (you would have had to em

Trouble is you have not mentioned/left out some things.
I am now 72,and at 62 was quite happy with the arrangement.
I agree I may have taken advantage of the arrangement over the years,but life is now getting a bit much for me.I have cut down on the socialising[not sure if she has].
tbh,I really dont feel quite myself anymore.Things are getting a bit on top of me in more ways than 1.My DD suggests I should see the GP but Im scared.Im getting older,and im scared of what he might tell me.People have suggested I might not be quite right in the head iyswim.So why would I want to see the GP if he is going to tell me that?
I do love my DD.What should I do?

Netguru on the hoarding-

My mother is a similar age (75) and I think it's a generation thing (after the War when there was rationing).She saves ^everything. Though TBH it's getting better, but it's been a long process.
My mother just collects stuff.
3 knitting machines, 3 sewing machines (that only partially work), food in the pantry years out of date.

When you have your building work completed I'm assuming you'll be putting in Fire alarms/Smoke detectors.
Do your local Fire Service do an advice visit (like the Police do Crime Prevention?)
Someone could come round and advice you where to site the alarms and mention that the amount of junk potential fire hazardous material would hinder her.

(At work, we have Mandatory annual Fire Lectures- I work in NHS). One Fire Officer said when we enter a house, always make sure you know your route to a fire escape .
One house I went to had papers stacked, boxes of goodness knows what, empty wrappers, furniture. It wasn't dirty, but I thought "If there's a fire, I'm trapped"

Just a thought

Oops posted early

You would have spent a shed load on nanny, or nursery for 2 kids plus care for the older child. I appreciate that it has also been an advantageous arrangement for your mother too, you have forked out on her lifestyle.

But for heavens sake it suits NEITHER of you now. It all reeks of living in each others pockets. I agree with the other poster who said how on earth did you get two men to agree to this anyway!

Call a meeting and discuss how you can amicably break free from eachother and regain a bit of independence. It just sounds like a very unhealthy co dependent relationship which neither party is actually enjoying

Sorry. I do hate drip feeding but people do jump to incorrect conclusions - which is my fault if I haven't made myself clear.

The little ones went to a child minder/nursery. She has nenever done full time child care.

She has never been asked to clean anything in our house. We have a housekeeper. She has never once hoovered the carpet in her flat and the dropped and rotten food in it means it has to be taken to the dump and replaced.

Last night my 10 year old wouldn't eat any tea. I found out this morning that she took him out and bought him a whole terry's chocolate orange which he then scoffed entirely. Yes he should have more self control but ffs why keep buying/feeding him shit?

Sorry I hadnt got that, that she didn't do full time childcare.

The rest of my post stands though. Why on earth did you ever think this could work, when by your own admission she wasn't that interested in cooking meals etc when she was bringing you up! I would assume that someone who wasn't particularly into domesticity as a mother is going to be even less so later in life.

This is a strange co dependent relationship. But it works for neither of you. She isn't happy. You're not happy. The kids aren't being transported where they need or having a meal cooked for them. (though I think at their ages they should be moving towards doing more for themselves )

Call a meeting and plan an exit strategy for both sides

But all you are doing is complaining - (don't get me wrong I can see why you are upset). Complaining won't help - it will just make you (and your mum probably) more and more stressed and upset.
Are you feeling guilty about asking her to move out - because I don't think you need to. Presumably she would be able to look after herself for a few more years? You need to address this before you make yourself ill. Rent out the annexe and use the money to pay for childcare. In the mean time, arrange for your mum to stop renting her house out and move back home. Tell her you love her very much, but that this situation isn't working out for either of you now - that it is obvious from the way she locked her door that she needs more privacy, and so do you. Say you need to sort it out before you fall out...

I think you're going to need to sit down with her and hammer it out. Neither of you are going to like it but it has to be done. It sounds as if too much is being done informally and you might both be making assumptions about what's reasonable. Suggestions are:

Flat - If she's renting off you then you could reasonably do inspections and ask her to keep the flat in good nick, either herself or by a cleaner. Also, it sounds like you'll have to arrange access in advance. Put things on a more businesslike footing.

Money - suggest setting an allowance for her, that she can spend on what she wants (car, Sky, phone etc etc). Then it's clear what everyone can afford. Neither of you can spend more on an ad hoc basis.

Childcare - set down some rules like limiting junk food, giving her a list of tasks you'd like her to do.

Your house - If she's limiting access to her annexe then it seems reasonable for you to limit access to your house. Could you make a deal that she comes over for dinner once or twice a week on set days and in return you get left when you have friends over?

Give it a few weeks to see if things improve, and stick to your agreed boundaries (no backsliding on the expenses or anything). If it doesn't work, then it might be time for her to move somewhere else?

Netguru "still dont know whether to stick my head in the sand and carry on or have a huge bust up"
There is your problem.The answer is neither.You are wondering whether to do a or z.The answer is probably around n.

The whole situation has changed from 10 years ago.
The whole dynamic has changed from 10 years ago.
You may not have changed much in 10 years.
But your kids sure as heck have.
And your mother even more so.

I get the feeling that you cant see the wood for the trees.

Take a step back.Look at the situation as if you are seeing it for the very first time.
Look at it with fresh eyes.If necessary,take advice from those around you.

She didn´t do childcare, but you benefited from the rent of her house (as you would have done the annex, so that "evens out")

So what you want is childcare in the evening when she´s probably tired after doing what she wants in the day?

Who is cooking the evening meal & does she sit down to eat with them?

"Still don't know whether to stick my head in the sand and carry on, or have a huge bust up."
Like amillionyears said, the correct answer is neither. Nor is it confrontation ( "I'm pretty useless at confrontation and she is even worse." ) As with almost everything, you both need to start with a bit of communication. I appreciate this won't be easy, as you said in your OP that she 'interprets' what you're saying into a more extreme and nasty version of what you actually said. Nonetheless, it has to be done.

Perhaps start the conversation by picking up on how she's been telling her friends "that she was tired and the children were too much work". That you appreciate she might want to end the agreement you'd come to, after all it was 10 years, maybe what she wants has changed. If at all possible (and I'll admit this is sneaky and underhanded), let her paint herself into a corner about how she doesn't want to do anything. And then start agreeing with her. Effusively. And move the conversation as to how, to achieve what she wants, moving back to her own house is really the only solution. And stand firm.

Now, if things are to change (and they really do need to), what are the practicalities to be dealt with?

Firstly, her house. Is it still rented out? Is it in good repair? Could she give notice to her tenants and move back there? Is it financially viable for her to do so, as she would then be meeting her own bills - council tax, heating, TV licence etc?

Secondly, the DC. You say you don't get home until 8pm, I know I'd prefer them to be fed and supervised by an adult until then, so what are your options?

• If your mother were not in the annex, could you consider an au pair?
• some other trade-off with a cheaper rent of the annex in return for supervision/cooking?
• they go to a childminder's after school and be fed there (doubt you'd get one who works to 8pm though)
• Employ someone from 4pm to 8pm to cook/supervise until your return. I think you saidyou cram a 40-hr week into three days, so it's for three nights a week you need this. Might it suit a sensible 17-18 year old, maybe a son/daughter of a friend?

Thirdly, you and your husband do have a bit of a crap work-life balance. You're doing 40 hours over three (very long) days, he's doing 100-hour weeks. Is this a temporary or permanent state of affairs? IS there any light at the end of this tunnel? Because it doesn't sound good for your or his health.

But you really shouldn't continue sticking your head in the sand because you simply won't be able to carry on this way for much longer by the sound of it, or you don't need to have a huge bust up unless she really pushes for it (in which case go for it and use it to show her clearly that change has to happen).

Just seen on another thread that you earn 4 grand a month and your dh earns even more.pay a bloody nanny to look after your kids.you dont need free childcare from your mum!! I

Sounds to me as though you were content enough when your DM was able to run around after your children, but now she's older (72) and perhaps becoming more frail, you think she's served her purpose

If she lives in an annex, why can't she hoard stuff if she wants to? Why is this your problem?

I can empathise fully - I also have a mother who wants things the way she wants them, screw anyone else and their needs.

I find it hard to accept what it seems like people are saying - should you also support your mother when she is unwilling to offer you the same support? It all comes down to the same argument.. do you think you 'owe' something to your mother, or should you be meeting on equal ground.

I think it's very unsupportive of people to say 'just let your mother be, and hoard all the things she likes' - it's your home at the end of the day, and you're extending it with your own money, largely for her benefit. If she doesn't want to compromise with your standards, then she has her own house to go back to - that's her choice. Of course, the rental income on her old house will be lost, but it sounds like you can financially meet the difference by renting out the annex privately.

This sounds really terrible. I think you have to stop it. Or how long will it go on for? Could be 20 years, no? It is not going to get better - your mother won't change.

I raised my child (although I couldn't be bothered to cook or clean then either) and don't see why I should do it again

On this basis, why on earth did you think this would work?

I feel for you. My mother is 62 and no longer able to live on her own. She was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue but didn't tell us until I dragged it out of her. We are in the US on the East Coast and she is in Canada on the West Coast.

My mother was a housewife and my father left her to get on with it. Looking back my mother was a terrible housewife although my parents did divorce. My mother also has no grasp of finances. She spends so much money it makes my head spin - like $1500 for a television on a whim.

I think you should suggest your mother return to her home and then you use your annex for an au pair or rent out the annex and hire someone to care for your son after school.

FWIW - be thankful your mother still has her place. DH and I just had to spend $450K on a flat for my mother in Vancouver. She had the nerve to describe it as a small 2 bed. It is bloody 1100 sqft with an outdoor deck. Along with my sister and DH we are also paying for her to have full time nurse because she doesn't feel like the state provision of 4 hrs 2-3 times a week is enough. Feel free to walk in my shoes - just wear a weight belt to carry the burden that is my mother.

This is not working OP and is only going to get worse unless you and your DH sit down with your mother and thrash things out.

If she is not interested in talking about your concerns then you will have to give her notice to leave. I know you don't want her to be alone but you have to put your family and your mental health first.

Have you any siblings who can help?

My mother is 72 and this is the sort of thing I can imagine happening to our family. Luckily at the moment it is not an option but it could be in the future. I will watch with interest to see how you resolve the situation.

Thanks everyone.

My last update was that I got home on Thursday night after saying she needed to wait to buy a new tv for a couple of days, and she had locked the door to the annex, meaning I couldn't decorate that night.

Yesterday morning the door was ajar and as my inlays were coming over to help with the painting, I went in and started work (downstairs where the work has been done - not yet habitable). She was clearing watching daytime tv upstairs.

In laws suggested I went out with the kids and left them to it. I was in hospital last weekend with a severe asthma attack and MIL just asked me to try to take it easy. I took kids with me and went to buy school uniforms for next term.

While I was out, she came down and told the inlays that I had one last chance or she would move out. (found this out later)

Came home and carried on decorating. Inlaws had not been offered coffee or lunch despite working on her new accommodation. FIL is 70 but happy and helpful, MIL 65.

Inlaws packed all decorating stuff in car around 4 and came in for coffee. Mother came downstairs, put bags in car and said she was leaving. She shouted upstairs to the kids 'your mother is throwing me out' which of course left them in pieces.

I absolutely lost it inside but disn't say anything in the heat of the moment. I told her that I was not throwing her out, I had built the annex to make her happy and could not understand why she was being so horrid to all involved. She told me that she and all her friends think I am a total bitch.

So she left. No tears, no regret on her part.

This is the fourth time she has threatened to move out in 12 years. I have never suggested she leave. Her friends have called me begging me to talk to her. I simply feel relief. I do not want her back.

Having my Inlaws here was fascinating. We are not particularly close but they are calm rational people. They were simply appalled at her behaviour.

So where has she gone?

To her best friend about 40 miles away.

The friend tells me (although she may very well be saying something different to my mother) that she feels Mum has behaved very badly. But Mum is apparently adamant that she will not come back unless we apologise for disrespecting her.

To be honest, that is fine with me now.

I think you've had a stroke of luck that she's gone for the moment.

Then text her saying that you agree with her that it isnt working, and that you need to meet with her to discuss the practicalities of clearing her stuff out and whether she will return to her own house or make other arrangements.

Do it now , before she rolls up again and tries to move back without discussion

Good lord.

And good riddance I think. You can't possibly have her move back in after this. Hopefully your relationship will start to heal with some distance between you :(