To feel I have just witnessed child abuse?

[mrsrosieb]

Please note I have only used medical terms in this post and nothing I am writing is meant to be insulting towards obese people.

I have just witnessed a morbidly obese woman pushing a pram with 2 older children-one about 9 and one about 14. These children are dangerously obese from a medical point of view.

I felt so sorry for them. If mum wants to eat a diet that makes her obese that is her choice and I have no problem with that. What I have a real issue with is raising children that may go on to suffer heart disease and diabetes-plus getting a ragging from the school bullies.

I know the SS have removed children like this. Am I right in thinking this is child abuse?

Be careful. My DD has cancer and steroids have made her bulk up a huge amount. She hardly eats, but is laying fat down 'like a toddler' - consultant's words (big, chunky arms, fat across her shoulders and back that makes her look very chunky). As I am overweight, I'm sure people would raise an eyebrow at us out and about. Many of the children we know with cancer are round faced and chubby from their treatment. There is nothing to do about it, apart from wait for chemo to come to an end and she should settle down. I'm not saying that you were looking at a family whose children all had cancer, but there could be a medical reason behind their size.

How do you that they are not already doing something about it?

I agree that it is difficult to just judge from seeing a family in the street like that.

However, I have to admit I went to church a few weeks ago and there was a mother there with an extremely overweight little boy of probably about 5 . In the time it took for Mass to be completed (an hour at most), he had consumed a packet of crisps, a whole can of full fat coke, a muffin and one of those sherbet dip things. He was pretty much eating crap the whole way through

I was the most cat's bum mouth I think I have ever been...

Obviously taking kids into care over it is a bit extreme, but yes, it is a form of abuse and I think in some cases it is necessary for SS to get involved.

Nobody is saying over weight people should have their kids removed.
Imo, in some cases it is abuse. Ok there may be reasons in this particular case where its not.
But if a parent (over weight or not) is feeding their kids in a way it will damage them ,mentally and physically then it is abuse.
If someone was starving their kids, it abuse. Why is this different?
You may see someone very thin with very thin kids, doesn't mean the children are being starved, but in some cases they may be.
Being over weight as a child is very damaging. Health wise it can impact when they are older, it can cause all sorts of life long issue.
I was overweight for a long time. Not as a child though. Its not fun, you can feel th damage it does to your body.
I think these families need support not people ignoring it because they are afraid of being accused of being fattist.

Surely the health visitor is there as a first point of advice regarding the children's diets as opposed to involving social services?

The HV is there to help with many different things but no-one has to see their HV...and even if they did, the HV can't insist the parents do certain things for the good of their children.

This is often when SS need to step in to ensure the best interests of the child is being met.

Obviously not to snatch the children into care, but often to stop any further neglect etc..

I quite agree KinkyDorito. My daughter is also overweight on account of her autism (although not as much as me). The judgment of people who take one look at us and feel all superior is horrible.

Oh Kinky, I hope your DD is ok.

If one child was obese they could be hypothyroid, severe asthmatic needing steroids etc.

However for them all to be obese the chances of this being due to medical conditions is very small indeed. Tiny.

I think it is abuse-it is damaging to her children's physical and emotional health and I honestly think they need support and advice from the SS, or perhaps a GP.

Just for the record, the Scottish family who had their kids removed actually had issues with parenting in addition to the weight problems. Removing kids just because of their weight is draconian and wrong.

YANBU. I say this from the point of view of someone who had a morbidly obese half-sister who ultimately died from a cancer that was inoperable partly because of the impossibility of successful surgery on someone who was that overweight.
And, whilst I'm not saying it's the case for everyone (and I'm verging on the skinny, so what would I know ), she was the weight she was because she ate such quantities. By the time I met her (she was adopted and we met as adults) there was nothing anyone could do to alter the path she had set off down in early childhood (there are plenty of photos in which you can see her ballooning year by year). If only there could have been some help for her earlier - as a child. She was a lovely, lovely person who did not need to have died so early.

You can only offer advice and the education though. To the parents I mean. If they don't act on it what then?

I watch the Lorraine Kelly programme with the Chawner family. The 2 girls are trying, and the education they are given on weight loss is clearly staying with them.... it's the parents who are not backing them. It's a sad programme to watch. The girls are motivated, til they get home and their mother starts on them.

How is autism a reason for obesity?

Just an additional point:

One reason I am so concerned about this issue is my ex had a morbidly obese 10 year old son.

He was obese as he was fed on a steady diet of fast food. I prepared him a salad once and he had never eaten one before.

He was a lovely lad but was ragged dreadfully by the school bullies. I took him for some new clothes once and he burst into tears in front of my ex in the changing room as he hated looking at himself. He had zero self esteem and I think his mum was negligent never bothering to cook him healthy choices.

It is really sad when that happens as very often it is because the parent(s) don't know what a diet is. This is often through no fault of their own.

NCForNow what a great point although I think being thin is far more accepted by society as people will assume that the family is eating the right things and taking regualr exercise. Perhaps it is a class thing?

Actually it's not that unhealthy to be fat. Nearly everything you read and hear in the mainstream about fatness and eating habits is actually bullshit, mainly peddled by the diet industry, which is a big con on exactly the same level as religion.
Anyway OP it's none of your business.

I don't think it's particularly a class thing.

I think some parents just can't say no and I also think people in general are losing sight of what fat actually is, because it's becoming normalised in our society.

I am very impressed that the OP was able to tell instantly that the family were not already getting SS support.

I am also impressed that she could tell (by the way they were walking?) that they weren't already taking steps to address their issues. Perhaps she was on her way to a Weightwatchers group.

sgb that would depend on how fat and where abouts on the body the fat actually is...particularly in proportion to the rest of the body.

Also, it's often an indication of a lack of exercise and poor nutritional intake...which in itself is unhealthy.

It does happen, and it's disingenuous to say it doesn't. And not always due to issues of one sort or another.

One of my Aunts had 4 morbidly obese children, who are now morbidly obese adults. All of my father's siblings are at least obese, if not morbidly so. I was 16 stone 2 years ago - obese. Two of my kids obviously have the same genes for being fat, as it doesn't take much to make them look chubby. (The other one is a beanpole.) So there is definitely a tendency to gain weight easily and hold onto it. That's a reason, but not an excuse, because we know that.

And actually, having radically changed my eating habits, I don't gain weight "easily" any more. It was masses of refined carbs, something to eat every time you have a cup of tea, huge portions etc. I now find that I can't actually eat a large meal in the likes of McDonalds - two of my brothers will eat that plus more without thinking about it, easily 1000 calories in a single meal.

One of DD's friends is morbidly obese. 8 stone at 8 years old. She's much taller than the others, too - because overfed children grow up as well as out. I think that is very often missed, people whose children are fat say "oh, but he's so tall," that's often part of the same issue. DD's friend can't run, can't bend to tie laces, can't dance, can't wear clothes designed for her age group - it's a miserable life. She also has signs of early puberty, such as body odor. All caused directly by her (also obese) parents' behaviour. It's very, very sad to witness.

But apart from this wee girl, at least half of the girls in my DD's class are big enough for it to be quite worrying - but of course, our perceptions are so skewed now. We think it's normal for kids to be fat. Think back to the "fat kid" in your class - I looked at a picture from school recently, the girl seen by everyone as overweight was actually smaller than a lot of kids now.

So maybe OP's snapshot was unfair, maybe this family are tackling the issue, but it is downright cruel to allow children to become so very fat. It sets them up for a lifetime of difficulty with food. And it absolutely does happen.

I live next to the 8 year old who was nearly taken off his mother for being so obese.

They got lots
Of help and support in the end and he lost a lot - although still big

YANBU
I am obese and have issues around food and comfort eating. I have made it one of my parenting goals to help my children have a more normal relationship with food. I would regard it as a failure of my parenting if I let my children become unhealthy and overweight just because I am. I am taking steps to sort myself out and I am completely honest about why I am overweight if my children ask.

My children love running around, cycling and playing football I would feel awful as a parent if I had let my issues with food rob my children of the ability to really enjoy those things.

How is autism a reason for obesity?

For a mountain of reasons, including:

1. The signals in the brain which signify things like hunger, thirst, full etc don't function correctly. Before I started getting help in the last few years, I didn't eat until I felt faint. Sometimes I didn't eat for weeks because hunger doesn't register. At other times, I eat till I'm sick, because full doesn't register either.

1. Sensory issues can lead to a very limited diet.

1. Stimming (the self stimulating anxiety response such as rocking, flapping etc) is about triggering the senses. So an autistic person can become fixed on and obsessed with a particular taste or texture of food. (As a teenager it was St Ivel Gold. Something about the texture was like a drug for me. I was obsessed with it and would eat it straight out of the tub with a spoon.)

1. It is extremely hard for autistic people to exercise. The spark in the brain which gets you going doesn't fire properly and when it does, it burns out very fast. This is a very well documented executive function deficit.

1. Another executive function deficit is planning and organisation. It can be extremely difficult to process the steps necessary to plan, shop and prepare food. What seems fairly simple to an NT person is like climbing a mountain to an autistic person.

95% of autistic people have problems with food. The latest figures say that 60% of people with diagnosed eating disorder are autistic, despite less than 1% of the population being autistic.

I don't see how being an autistic child can cause obesity. Surely you control what your child eats? I didn't have any SN as a kid but I would've eaten til I was sick as I was always hungry-just a greedy kid. Luckily my mum only allowed me to eat what was good for me. I was always a normal sized kid & if anything, always on the slim side.

rosie, you have no idea that they're not receiving any help, already. It's unfortunate that there might just be many families in much greater need of SS intervention, though. (Unfortunate for the families in need, that is)

Hammy, do you have any experience of living with autism? Do you know anything about what it actually is and how it manifests itself? I don't think you do, because if you had even an inkling, you would understand how laughable your comment was.

Thanks kladdkakka didn't know that.