To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

If (unlikely) Scotland gets independence, I hope they take us (the north east) with them.

There would be nothing left for us in England. The Tories make it clear time and time agin that, the further north you are, the less they care.

Then again, no love lost and all that... They still parade union banners down our local high street three times a year...

Outraged - my point is that either have no subsided childcare and no tax credits at all or if they are going to provide childcare then women should also be able to make the choice to stay at home through tax credits at the same level as subsidised childcare - why should the government pay a third party to look after children and not support parents in the same way? Or just don't do it at all. That's my point.

Dawndonna

Ukip. Racism. Disablism. Why? They have stated that they want disabled people to work, and if not capable, they would like to create 'villages'.

No they haven't.

They're manifesto states that those on incapacity benefits will get the same as students and jobseekers.

No it doesn't.

How did you not already know they would do this? They do it every time. Sadly people do still vote them. You are one of them...

Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people with learning disabilities

From UKIPs own manifesto.

It's only the mega rich that are getting richer. And that's not because of the government, that's because of whatever they do that earns them so much money. Those people who were 'comfortable' are no longer quite so comfortable as they were.

The downturn in the economy has affected almost everyone, even those who pay HRT.

I support many, but not all of the cuts, and I expect many people feel the same. People's opinions don't have to be all or nothing, for most it's just choosing the lesser of the evils.

headfairy

I didn't know that Lacking, however for me the final nail in the coffin was cutting the 50p tax rate. It doesn't even matter if the net effect was to increase revenues to HMRC (though judging by the amount of tax avoidance I doubt it would have made a jot of difference), the message was very clear. Poor people are a curse on society, rich people are to be cossetted and protected at all costs. It was a hugely political move.

The country needs money to pay its debts, and you'd rather "send a message" than get that money in. How very Labour of you, more interested in political grandstanding than economic reality.

Also, I do take a small umbrage at people who say Labour instigated this that and the other. It may well be that in 2009 for example Labour had started the process to limit benefits and reasses disability benefits. Whether they would have continued with those policies in light of the terrible economic situation we're still in is another thing. At that point we were showing sighs of recovery I believe, and we definitely were not in double dip recession.

Bwahahaha. The only reason we weren't in a double-dip recession was that we were still in the first recession.

Do UKIP really plan to house disabled people in "villages"? Seriously? Isn't that just another word for a ghetto? What kind of crazed deranged idiot thinks up things like that? Oh hang on... I know who. The Nazis that's who :(

Roll key benefits - such as Jobseeker?s Allowance, Incapacity Benefit and Student Maintenance Grant - into a single, flat-rate BCB set at the same weekly rate as Jobseeker?s Allowance or Income Support. For students, the BCB will be termed ?Student Vouchers? or ?Training Vouchers?

Again, from the manifesto

Wiggle, working parents are contributing to the economy, SAHP'S aren't. They might be contributing to society, but that's different.

Parents should be supported to contribute to the economy because it's good for the country and it's good for families to be self sufficient when children are old enough to be at school and then left alone while a parent works.

Why should the taxpayer provide enough so that parents can have a lovely time going to toddler group and the like and then have to support them to find new employment when their children are older?

flatpack but we're not paying off the deficit are we? So we're putting thousands in poverty for what? The effects of putting thousands of households in deep poverty will be felt long after the economy has recovered. I'm not an economist, but surely you have to consider the long term prospects. Putting thousands in to poverty does nothing but create longer term poverty.

Thank you Vagaceratops.

As stated in their own manifesto, flatpack

outraged I do appreciate I'm going to sound like a right old hippy here but " Why should the taxpayer provide enough so that parents can have a lovely time going to toddler group and the like and then have to support them to find new employment when their children are older? " didn't you answer your own question when you said there were social benefits to parents staying at home with their children during their early years. Are social benefits not still benefits. Do they only have to have some kind of financial value to be of benefit?

Vagaceratops

Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people with learning disabilities

From UKIPs own manifesto.

That's rather different to what you claimed.

Another one here who genuinely despaired of people who said they didn't vote because they couldn't see the point, but now feeling exactly teh same way. I genuinely loathe the Tory party and all they stand for, feel I no longer KNOW what the LAbour party stand for and think Miliband is completely unelectable, and as for Lib Dems... I feel so betrayed by them. I think this coalition government is the biggest wasted opportunity in modern day politics.

I hate the two-party system and think it has contributed to so many of today's problems. I'm a child of Thatcher years, and I remember her pushing profitability above all, but I remember her doing it in reaction to Labour days of strikes - Britain Isn't Working and all that. I remember the unemployment and repossessions, I remember the crumbling schools, and empty beds in hospitals, and junior doctors killing people because they'd worked 5 days straight, and public transport that was barely updated over the whole two decades of Tory reign.

So of course Labour had to spend money like water to redress all those years of underinvestment, and the council estates got refurbished and the schools got rebuilt and NHS workers got a decent salary for once, but then at some point they lost their way and decided PPPs were the way to go and held us all to ransom in the future.

For once we had a chance to arrest the swinging pendulum with a third party in power, but Clegg has proved so utterly spineless that there is no compromise, just Tory idiology trying to push this country further and further to the right. You either have long standing governments who create such a build up of issues that it takes years to redress the balance (like Thatcher and Blair) or short-lived ones who go all out to make their mark no matter the consequences (which I believe Cameron is doing). What we need is a proper, balanced, proportional system of government where parties are FORCED to work together, but we've lost that opportunity now.

A congregate community is a ghetto.
For crying out loud Flatpack, whenever there is one of these threads, you come on, put in your twopennorth and refuse to listen to anybody but yourself. It's in their manifesto.
As is the putting those on incapacity at the same rate as jobseekers.
Which bit of either of these, FROM THEIR MANIFESTO do you not comprehend?

I disagree, I think people will continue to vite conservative as there are HUGE amount of people that dont want taxpayers money spent on the poor

eh voila

I claimed nothing actually Flatpack, I simply copied stuff from the manifesto which you seem to think is so bloody brilliant.

Every time I think about the wording of that policy my blood runs cold.

flatpack what DawnDonna said.

Can you not see the lie you are being fed?

Headfairy, there has to be some financial benefit to giving out free money to people who could work if they wanted to, yes, otherwise it's just silly.

By social benefits I was referring to things like the SAHM's who are on the PTA and such like, but that sort of thing can be done by working Mums too.

I can't see any huge benefit to society for mums of babies and preschoolers to be at home, the benefit is by far to them as individuals. Therefore they should pay for it as individuals.

Thatcher lead to a huge increase in public transport by her de-regulation satte ownership of the airlines and buses companies. If she had not done that there would be no where near the number of routes and services you can travel on now.

Vagaceratops

Roll key benefits - such as Jobseeker?s Allowance, Incapacity Benefit and Student Maintenance Grant - into a single, flat-rate BCB set at the same weekly rate as Jobseeker?s Allowance or Income Support. For students, the BCB will be termed ?Student Vouchers? or ?Training Vouchers?

Again, from the manifesto

Yet I'm looking at their welfare manifesto which states:

"UKIP does not propose any changes to Disability Living Allowance, Attendance Allowance or Mobility Allowance."

So everyone gets BCB, and the disabled get extra support through other allowances.

The interesting thing which you fail to take note of is that the BCB makes carers who work will be about £50 per week better off, because the BCB isn't means tested.

The trouble is that Guardian-reading socialists will look at the Guardian and BBC's propaganda around UKIP, and say "Oh noes, Polly Toynbee hateses them" and decide they must be evil racists.

However, creating a citizen's basic income, scrapping all the tax credits and extra this and little bit of that, and making it simple, not only raises the takeup (meaning that everyone who needs it gets it, instead of just people who can be fagged to fill in 28 forms), but it makes it cheaper and simpler to administer.

It's a great idea. It's only a shame that UKIP won't be in power to put it, and their other good policies, in to practice.

headfairy

flatpack but we're not paying off the deficit are we?

Well, far be it from me to defend the Conservative party on this, but Labour proposed halving the deficit over 4 years, the coalition said they'd get rid of it - so by the 2015 the economy should be back on an even keel where tax receipts match expenditure. By 2015, under Labour, we'd have had even bigger debts and be nowhere near to balancing the books.

So we're putting thousands in poverty for what? The effects of putting thousands of households in deep poverty will be felt long after the economy has recovered. I'm not an economist, but surely you have to consider the long term prospects. Putting thousands in to poverty does nothing but create longer term poverty.

The costs to the economy of those people 'in poverty' are lower than the costs of keeping their benefits high and their public sector jobs open. It's grim, but it's numbers, and Labour and their supporters have never been big on numbers.

I will never vote Labour because of the total shitty mess they make of everything.

And what of the communities for people with LD then flatpack - how do you justify those?

I will never vote labour again either! gutless torys in sheeps clothing!