To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

So CHC is the most critical classification of need but brings in less than the old IB and less than the ESA would? (sorry to pry, just trying to get my head around this!)

KellyElly well if labour had the balls to reform the csa and not make the messit did single mothers wouldnt need so much benfits because ex parntners would be paying a darn sight more towards their children

And quiting ther job to live of the state would not have been a option Like it was under labour

In the us were my auntie lives single mothers get very little help from the state but fathers are expected to
Ay their fair share for example drives liacnecs and marriege circifactes are with held until the full balance of child support is paid or they can sell the exs home and or assets to get the money or they can just put you in jail until you pay any winnings lotto ect gose to tax bill first then child support then you get the rest

No fucking about here you can quit your job be looked after by the tax payer and give your child £5 a week

kellyelly
"Clytaemnestra what about those who do work like myself (I work 32 hours a week - that's considered p/t at my company as we are ususally on a 40 hour week so salary went down by a 1/5 after going back after mat leave), are single mothers and receive benefits like working tax credit, child tax credit and housing benefit (because as a single person bringing up a child in London you'd have to be on a pretty large salary to afford to rent without help). "

I have no problem with top-up benefits at all. Where have I implied that I have?

Well, I do have a problem, but it's not to do with the people who receive them. I think it is ridiculous that we take money of lower than average earners in tax and then give it back to them in handouts. Why not just tax less in the first place? Save a fortune on admin for a start.

Or we could work to bring living costs (rent really) down to a realistic level. But until that happens I don't think people should be left unable to survive. ALL support should be given to people who want to work, including topping up salaries so they can afford to.

Acumens100

I think you've misunderstood. I said in my post that I think that the formula for correctly assessing people has not yet been found, so I don't understand where you think I was saying I think that your disabled husband should work? I said I think fit and healthy people should not get benefits which enable them to make a lifestyle choice to not work, in response to a poster who addressed them as being the same category.

People have such short memories.

I find it funny how everyone is blaming the Tories when we had 13 dreadful years of Labour and all the horrors that came with it (Iraq war, introduction of university fees, uncontrolled immigration, huge rise in the cost of housing, selling off gold at rock bottom, rise of bureaucracy, rise of council tax etc to name just a few. So the Tories are cleaning up the shit that Labour left behind (like it always does).

I would never vote Labour (I wouldn't vote Tory either because I think all politicians are the same) but it really irks me that apparently after only 2 years the financial mess (which started when Labour were in power) is blamed on the Tories. Perhaps we should just keep spending like under Labour and hope that the magic money fairy in the sky comes and showers us with endless cash???

Well the magic money fairy worked for TB.

You don't get any money in your pocket on CHC. It's just a boring legal thing about how stuff like equipment and nurse visits are paid for--either through the PCT-as-was or the council budget. Effectively, DP is "in hospital at home". It's cheaper for everyone for him to be here in a bed rather than in a long stay hospital (almost unknown these days) or nursing home, but he still needs access to nursing and other medical care and specialised equipment.

He doesn't see the money himself, it's all handled through procurement on a health budget, which is, again, not really the subject of this thread, though I think it is a good system (I was pleasantly surprised by the Social Care white paper, and am not so tribal to say so).

I only said it to demonstrate how disabled he is, tbh. CHC is not for living expenses and the money never hits our bank account.

*too tribal!

So everything is taken care of is it not which is state funded. That is exactly how benefits work so he has not lost anything really has he?

QoD a bit harsh?

No, she speaks truth.

I will vote Tory and hope they are not held back as they are this term by the Lib Dems.

Am I rich? No. Do I earn a big salary? No. I pretty much exist on my OAP and a tiny private pension. I'm disabled but the only thing I have ever applied for is a blue badge for parking.

I would love to see the Tories pull this country out of Europe and use that money in our own country. The EU is a gravy train, unaudited and unchecked. I don't see a long future for the Euro, what with the problems in Greece, Italy etc and even a majority of Germans want to leave it. We are owed a referendum which could be incorporated into the next election, thereby saving money.

Someone referred to Rupert Murdoch as being friends with the PM. Did you know Tony Blair is the godfather to his youngest child? Can't get much more chummy than that.

It's going to take longer than one term to get this country out of the financial mess Brown left it in.

QoD , best post on the thread.

Clytaemnestra

No, I understood you. What I'm trying to tell you is that what is happening is that severely disabled and vulnerable people are being kicked off benefits. That is what is happening. That is what the government are doing. That is what you are voting for.

You might think you're voting for the fit and healthy people etc etc, but that is not what is happening. Haven't you noticed there's no such thing as disabled people any more? It's only ever the "genuinely disabled", as if there's some massed rank of fraudulently disabled people. But the fraud rate is very low, something like 0.5%. And if my DP is not genuinely disabled, I don't know who could possibly qualify. They've changed the rules so that you can only be disabled for a year, and then in the press said that all the people kicked off were scroungers and fakers. But they changed the rules, is all; it's nothing to do with your disability.

It's the old trick of the deserving poor: we all deserve to be poor.

Yes, I get it, Novack. You think that disabled people do not deserve food, gas, electricity etc. You think his needs are fully met by nursing care, with nothing to eat and nowhere to live and that's fine.

I get it. And I realise you are the majority. The chasm between us is impassable.

Also btw under the budget I provide more than 90% of all the nursing care! UNPAID. He qualified partly because of the complex care I do myself.

God, I shouldn't post in these threads. Exposing myself to this hatred. Gah, why do I do it?

The Tories created a lot of the problems we have now.

It's all well and good to complain about benefits, but the reason we pay so much in housing benefit is because there aren't enough council houses. There aren't enough council houses because of right-to-buy, which the Tories brought in. So you get people living in London getting £1000 in housing benefit or more because prices are artificially high.

It does make me laugh when people say "people should just get a job."

Oh yeah, all those millions of jobs there are.

Having dealt with a number of Labour Directors of Education who were corrupt to their marrow there's not a chance I will vote for the LP.

My initial post said i feel it's a bit of a hobson's choice though.

I think a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote and I think a vote for Labour as they currently stand would end us up in a position like Spain but with no one to bail us out as I think the current shadow cabinet are not capable to run a country. (Apparently this makes me spineless but there we go). I think if Labour got into power there would soon be no money for ANYTHING, welfare, the NHS, the lot. I don't believe the choice is austerity versus land of plenty, I think it is austerity versus bankruptcy.

So, who do I vote for if not Tories? I think they are the least worst option, of a REALLY bad bunch. Does that mean I automatically wholeheartedly agree with them on everything? Of course not, they don't even agree with each other within the party half of the time. I'm shocked by incompetance of the implementation of welfare reform and I think it's been handled appallingly. But I think the system does need reform. I think the NHS needs reform, and a vote for Labour appears to be a vote for sticking your head in the sand.

May I ask the criterea which led your DH to be assessed as fit for work?

So Acumens, your DP cannot work, yet receives no money to live on? I'm right in that?

If that's the case I'm genuinely shocked. I knew that people were having their disability classifications changed/removed, but I didn't think that people who were unarguably disabled had benefits removed. No words really.

Clytaemnestra I wasn't saying you had said it I was just asking your views :)

Mrbojangles1 I agree about ex partners paying more towards their children but if they aren't in a position to (unemployed/low wage) or self employed and hiding some of their income, in that case benefits would always have to be paid. I personally don't see how people can cope just on benefits with a young child (in London for instance) unless they are in social housing as HB doesn't even cover all the rent in most boroughs any more. I think as hard as it is to juggle for most single parents working is always the better option.

Yellowraincoat - And Labour had 13 years to build hundreds of thousands of social homes (to reverse what happened under Thatcher) but they didn't. Instead Labour decided to enrich their landlord friends by introducing LHA (local housing allowance). Rather than building loads of subsidised social homes with taxpayer money, Labour gave it all to BTL landlords and in doing so created the housing crisis.

Orwellian, I never said Labour couldn't have had better housing policies.

I'd love to know where they could build more houses. Where I live now, everything is built on already. I don't see why people shouldn't be able to live in the place they grew up, have friends and family because there is no housing they can afford.

It is fucking horrible.

I think there's a distinction between thinking that we need to reduce the debt burden and, therefore, reduce public spending, and "being in favour of benefit cuts".

I voted Tory because I DID think that reducing the debt burden was a priority. I thought DC was a breath of fresh air and that - having had his own experiences of caring for a disabled child - he would prioritise the needs of the vulnerable. I thought the coalition was a good thing, because the need to work in partnership with the Lib Dems would curtail the worst Tory excesses.

It hasn't worked out like that. The Tories are pandering to traditional right wing prejudices and are targeting the vulnerable. The LDs have not been able to influence them in the way they hoped. That's not what I voted for and I won't vote for them next time.

There's a group of right-wing backbenchers who have been goading the LDs in the hope of breaking up the coalition to force a general election. In their mad version of the world, this will inevitably lead to a Tory government and then they can REALLY get on and do things. Madness......

Id vote conservative, and thats only because they are IMO the best of a pile of crap.

Its a bit like do you want your right arm or your left arm cut off? Neither option is at all appealing, but id leep my right arm because its the one I use most.

Id never vote for the Lib Dems because frankly they seem as much use as a wet fish and I wouldnt vote for a different party because frankly I want my vote to matter and would do anything to avoid a hung parliment again.

I voted for Labour in 1997, I would only do so again at gunpoint.