To think David Cameron has got it completely and utterly wrong re sport in schools,a competitive ethos should come after raising levels and a love of sport?itness

[Prarieflower]

Thats it really.Fat lot of good creating a more competitive ethos will do if the maj of teenagers are unfit and loath PE. Competition actually puts many children off sport full stop.

I went to secondary school in the 80s when non sporty types were ridiculed and made to feel like failures during PE lessons and Sports Day. Competition ruled over all else,nobody did sport just for enjoyment or just to maintain fitness.As a result I and many others did all we could to avoid PE lessons and thought we hated all sport.

For years I did nothing and then I discovered I enjoyed hiking,cycling and swimming-just for me.Who knows, if any had been provided and encouraged just for fitness I may well have gone on to take part in competitive events.Having better fitness levels for a start would have made that more likely.

I think schools should be encouraged to help pupils to pick sports they enjoy,they should be expected to take part in something of their choice more frequently. There should be a wide range linked to off school sites and red tape should be cut. There should be better facilities and the selling off of school fields stopped. There should be access to tasters in the specialised stuff like the dreaded javelin and shot put(sp?) which I hated. Sports Day which only celebrates athletics should be only for those that are interested and want to take part.Those that want to go the gym or have a swim should be able to do just that.Other sports should be celebrated not just athletics.

My kids are far more positive re PE than I ever was so I think schools of today are doing something right,it just needs to be extended further.

David Cameron simply doesn't have a clue re state school provision and it's needs.

Not very knowledgeable re sport so I'll await my flaming.I'm just observing and speaking as a previous sport avoider and now as a mum.

Ruby that isn't competition,it's bribery.

No it's not. It's competition. 'He announced a competition' I didn't say he said the most sales equals sweets, it was announced there was a competition. The children were rewarded for winning but they were not bribed.

The school now does loads of competitions for nearly everything and I think it works.

Where have I said I am against creativity?

I am being realistic, even a few options doesn't work. Most schools have a sports hall, gym and outside area. They will have one member of staff to a class of 30. It simply isn't possible to provide a choice in lesson time.

I don't think fitness needs to be the daily shred or army fitness training.Kids could have personal targets like in all other areas of the curriculum.I'd be far more likely to compete against myself then a load of other grotty teenagers I couldn't care less about.

Also you are supposed to actually brake out in a sweat occasionally when doing physical exercise-or is that just the elite,are the rest just supposed to stroll round the track whilst losing graciously?

Children are given targets in PE like in any other subject

Sirzy my comp had a PE team,schools have TAs and there are plenty of experienced people/volunteers/parents in the community which plenty of schools draw on for all sorts of things.

But because your comp has that doesn't mean every other can do that, you are trying to make it sound simple when it is far from that.

Bringing outside people in is great as a one off, but for your plan to work you would need those people in for the entire school day for every child to benefit which isn't going to happen.

Yanbu.

There's nothing wrong with competition, but I will be very cross if everyone suddenly starts being obsessed with finding olympic champions. A minute section of the population is anywhere near able and talented enough, so why the hell should all the focus be on them. They are, by nature, very driven individuals anyway, regardless of talent, if they have any chance of attaining the highest heights.

We are a nation getting less and less fit functionally, and this is the problem the state has a responsibility to address. Nice as it is to get international glory, it's not important.

I don't think we necessarily need to offer multitudes of sports, just that the existing ones are taught to everyone. Taught that is, you know told the rules, and how to get their bodies to co-operate, and how to use and be part of a team, not just chucked a ball and thrown in with very talented children, when you are at chance of physical harm.

Less able children need support, same as dyslexics need support with literacy. We wouldn't dream of letting them just get on with it, even if they only learn to read for their own enjoyment and personal development, so why the hell should those who struggle in the physical arena be given less attention to improve.

Competition for everyone, with alike peers, and also themselves.

Exactly pouff all kids need to be literate,numerate and fit to get the most out of life. Will be worrying if the focus is on producing just a few elite.

You don't see that attitude in literacy or numeracy.By contrast the emphasis is putting on raising standards at the bottom not ignoring the less able to produce a few elite.But then you don't get gold medals if you excel at literacy or numeracy or the kudos for your country goes with it.

Obviously is isn't possible to put on every sport every child might want to do. But I attended a state school where the whole year had 2 hours of PE at the same time, and you could choose from six different activities (the six activities changed throughout the year). As a consequence, I had quite a lot of confidence in sport because I got to focus on the ones I was well suited for and have more training time, and was able to represent the school and run competitively for them (cross country and orienteering). I would not have been able to do that if I had been pushed into spending a lot of my PE time doing sports I had no aptitude for.

But as I said earlier, in DS1's secondary, the less able children are given help. The classes are split into those who are good at sport and those who are not so able like they are for any other subject. Are they really the only state school to do that? I don't think so.

And as for giving choice, they do. They do a sport for a half term block sometimes less (4 weeks maybe) so that nobody has to do anything they hate for every long. They make the best of their resources but they can't offer 30 or even 10 different sports for every class to try out. It just isn't feasible. I doubt private schools do that either.

They are also taught the rules of the game and how to play. They aren't just given a ball and told to get on with it. Nor are they humiliated and laughed at. My DS is dyspraxic. He really is the last choice for most PE activities, competitive or not but he enjoys PE because he puts in the effort and joins in and he is encouraged. I really don't recognise this version of PE in the 21st century some of you are coming up with. Maybe 30-35 years ago when I was in secondary but not now.

The gold medals for literacy and numeracy are PHd's and high profile academic careers so yes you do get noticed for that. Of course you do, its just that you have decided not to think in those terms. No they don't have 4 year competitions but forging an academic career is also very competitive in its own way. In their own fields they do get the kudos, but it just isn't very exciting watching somebody write a research paper like it is watching somebody run 100m.

Hmm, if competition and learning that you can't be good at everything are so great why don't schools organise a day where everyone has to stand on stage and answer maths problems? Or spelling. Parents to be invited and heckling from peers just fine. A bit of pressure will do them good. The winner gets their arse kissed a big trophy and the losers get told that's life and tough. No? Whyever not? The logic is identical to the sports scenario. OP you may have guessed I agree with your sentiments about general fitness rather than manic competition being the more important objective for school PE (the option to compete should be there but just that, an option for those who want it). I hated PE. The bullying and humiliation the academic kids were subjected to was awful and would never have been allowed to happen to they who should be worshipped the sporty kids in another subject. We had a nice PE teacher when the usual one was off on maternity. She always tackled bullying or jeering, allowed tracksuits instead of knickers and let us do yoga, aerobics, dance and swimming instead of making us run round a wet muddy field every lesson while she barked orders at us (it was one lesson new activities and one lesson old activities each week so there was a balance for those who enjoyed traditional school games). The drop in absenteeism spoke volumes. When the old teacher came back and promptly got rid of the improvements, period pains, lost kits etc increased again. That turned into a bit of an essay didn't it? But it is a subject that I really feel strongly about.

DC is completely right IMO.
Every class should have a winner of the best painting competition, the best story-writing competition, the best at reading out loud, the best at sums, neatest writer, best packed lunch, best recorder player etc. That would encourage all the children to improve their game at school and raise levels of attainment across the board.
:o

Bertha, I don't think setting for PE is a good idea because not many people are bad or good at all sports. I was very good at running, good at gymnastics, but bad at almost everything that involved hitting a moving object. Doing lots of different sports for 4 weeks just means that nobody gets a chance to improve a lot in any particular sport.

I think there needs to be more choice (which doesn't mean more sports or more expensive sports, just more choice between the ones schools currently offer) and more development of skills at a level appropriate to the individual. Some children could be playing games of competitive tennis while some just spend time improving their ability to hit the ball. There would be no point in me spending 4 weeks playing a game of tennis according to the tennis rules because 99 times out of 100 I just wouldn't be able to hit a ball coming towards me. Boring and a waste of time for whoever would be playing against me.

Fair enough but it would work for me and it works for DS who is, as I say, dyspraxic and chronically bad at all things sporty. I would argue it would work for you too since being good at running or gymnastics doesn't rely on you being in a team with other people who are equally good. You do it all by yourself. If you aren't good at team sports and got put in the lower ability group it would make not difference to you at all in terms of your ability to shine in running or gymnastics. I don't know for sure and can't ask DS now but it could be that the groups change with the sport too.

If you find you are good at a sport and want to do more you can always join an after school club or wait until that sport comes round again which it will.

Besides, it isn't about being able to improve at any particular sport. It is about offering a variety so that a. you don't get bored and b. you might find something you like enough to do as a club if you want to. I don't think schools are about creating the next Olympic star - that isn't their job.

As for not following the rules of the game, what would be the point of attempting to hit a ball over the net even if you are very bad at it if you don't actually have a reason to do so? Surely you need some sort of loose rules, just to add interest otherwise it is just painfully monotonous. Even me, with my deep lack of interest in sport would want some reason for bothering to take part.

Some private schools do allow state schools to use their facilities.
When my son was in primary the swimming lessons were held at the local private school. They didn't charge for the use of the pool but we had to cover the cost of the life guard and coach to get the kids there. We paid £40 per term for these.

The difference with private schools and state schools for sport is that if you are selected to play for the private school in any sport then even if the game is out of school time you are expected to turn up and play. In a state school only those who choose to will turn up.

Some private schools have even allowed the Olympics to use their facilites.

Dr coconut I take it your school never had a top of the form or debating contest every yea, or the inter school maths, or chemisty competitions, because many schools do.

YANBU - PE at school put me off any sport except swimming for years... standing in the freezing cold waiting to get picked (always last sadly) for a hockey or netball team & then being totally rubbish at it just left me feeling... just rubbish!
I was ill for 6 months age 15; & managed to get signed off PE for the rest of school! I would have skived (it was a comp) but i wasn't that the type of girl who would want to do that.

I was quite envious when i heard that a colleague's DD's secondary school has a dance studio. I would have loved that in PE!!
Competitive Sports are something that children either like or hate - surely it makes sense not to put the 'haters' off PE, when they could be enjoying a sport like dancing etc which still keeps them fit but not feeling totally left out.

Latara dance is now part of normal pe in secondary schools

We used to do dance at school 35 years ago. Mind you, make like a tree and filllllll the space around isn't really my idea of dancing. It wasn't competive, I grant you but it was also pretty dull. I hope it has improved!

Really?? That's good then, lucky them!!

I dont know if it has improved by my son is doing gcse pe and dance is one part of it and he hates it. He is very competative and loves all sport and doesn't see why he has to waste his time doing dance when he could be doing football, basketball or tennis.

I did Country Dancing at First School (in a small town in the countryside) but i don't think it was part of PE - to be honest i can't remember; but i really enjoyed it.
A friend who went to school in a local village remembers Maypole Dancing.

At 10 i joined a 'Dance Aerobics' group after school (i was youngest by far) & we learnt a routine to 'Thriller' (must have been approx 1986 or 1987..).