To think David Cameron has got it completely and utterly wrong re sport in schools,a competitive ethos should come after raising levels and a love of sport?itness

[Prarieflower]

Thats it really.Fat lot of good creating a more competitive ethos will do if the maj of teenagers are unfit and loath PE. Competition actually puts many children off sport full stop.

I went to secondary school in the 80s when non sporty types were ridiculed and made to feel like failures during PE lessons and Sports Day. Competition ruled over all else,nobody did sport just for enjoyment or just to maintain fitness.As a result I and many others did all we could to avoid PE lessons and thought we hated all sport.

For years I did nothing and then I discovered I enjoyed hiking,cycling and swimming-just for me.Who knows, if any had been provided and encouraged just for fitness I may well have gone on to take part in competitive events.Having better fitness levels for a start would have made that more likely.

I think schools should be encouraged to help pupils to pick sports they enjoy,they should be expected to take part in something of their choice more frequently. There should be a wide range linked to off school sites and red tape should be cut. There should be better facilities and the selling off of school fields stopped. There should be access to tasters in the specialised stuff like the dreaded javelin and shot put(sp?) which I hated. Sports Day which only celebrates athletics should be only for those that are interested and want to take part.Those that want to go the gym or have a swim should be able to do just that.Other sports should be celebrated not just athletics.

My kids are far more positive re PE than I ever was so I think schools of today are doing something right,it just needs to be extended further.

David Cameron simply doesn't have a clue re state school provision and it's needs.

Not very knowledgeable re sport so I'll await my flaming.I'm just observing and speaking as a previous sport avoider and now as a mum.

YABU - I didn't like PE and wasn't very good at it but I don't see why the PE lesson need to be tailored to the likes of me. All school subjects are competitve. It makes no sense to me that the one that is overtly competitive should should be the one that is forced to stop being competitive. We don't make grade A maths students do the same work as those who couldn't pass the exam just so that they feel better about themselves. Why do that in PE? I particularly hated hockey but don't agree that I should have been allowed to drop it any more than I should have been allowed to drop physics which I also hated.

For a while when DS1 was in Yr 1 (he's just about to start Yr 8) the infants tried to do a non-competitive sports day. It was the most boring thing in the world to watch and be part of. DS1 is dyspraxic and therefore terrible at most sports and even he didn't like it. There was no point to it and it killed any ambition whether you were good at sport or not.

I actually like that now DS is in secondary they seem to stream the children into 2 groups. It means that there isn't that awful pressure of letting the side down when you are crap and you are in the team of somebody who plays for the school side. Everybody gets to improve their skills without feeling either frustrated that others are holding them back or losing interest because they can't compete. They do have lots of different sports too and a gym. I have no quibbles at all about their facilities or the range of sports on offer and it is a bog standard comp, nothing special.

Sports day at secondary is for the children only. No parents but it has always been that way so I don't get this day of braying parents thing.

In the juniors, they do an incredible selection of sports and they have outside coaches if needs be (had some arrangement to use them for PPA time). Surely you don't have to be coached by experts to give something a try, just somebody who knows the rules?

I don't even see this has anything to do with Cameron not understanding state schools. That is a lazy argument and I didn't even vote for him. To my mind the responsibility lies with the school to make time and money available for PE as they would any other subject. They have specialist teachers and they should make sure that their training remains up to date so that they are proficient in coaching several sports.

My experience of sports in the state schools that my sons have attended suggests that Cameron is simply lying. There is a competitive ethos. I just simply haven't noticed any teachers shying away from traditional competitive sports, though there is also the valuable presence of a non-competitive "keep-fit" ethos of the sort you come across in a gym.

His utterances just seem like a stupidist smokescreen for the failure to fund school sports properly, and for the lack of time for sports that is generated by the mindless exams culture that dominates our children's lives at school.

what makes me cross is all the rhetoric about getting kids healthier but the govt cut the grant to Healthy Schools, are selling off school playing fields, reduced the funding to the Scool Sports coordinators who could offer loads of different choices of sport and activity to get kids involved, and the latest is that they have abolished the 2 hours a week entitlement to physical activity so schools no longer have to offer it. No wonder the childhood obesity rates are not reducing. I get so angry hearing him say we should get kids involved in sport when he is actively reducing their chances!!!

I also agree with you Prarieflower. There will be children not to mention pushy parents that love sports, so there will be athletes of the future. Meanwhile, let's just get the other kids to find an activity that they like to do. I'm very pleased with how DS is doing with his martial arts fwiw, the school mentioned that he didn't have an interest in sport. I pointed out that he goes to Ninjutsu and Jujutsu and I didn't see what the problem is, and frankly, me and DS thought that most of the 'usual' sports were pretty boring.

In my day the actual girl's PE kit was one of the main problems, a white Airtex see-through shirt and red nylon PE KNICKERS! How is that at all productive in terms of a teenage girls confidence. That was wrong, just plain wrong!

lol at the person who wrote that the US are waaay more successful than us. Our little island has one fifth the population of the US and one 20th that of China yet we are 3rd in the medal table and the US has no where near 5 times our medals. Our little island has proven itself to be GREAT at these games and if people listened to Cameron we could be topping that table since 50% of our medals have come from only 7% of our population.

We did used to do rounders, hockey and netball which I enjoyed (we only did them for 1-2 weeks of the year though). Swimming was naff as half the kids in my year had never been in a pool and I didn't learn anything new.

Tennis, badminton, cricket, athletics, javelin, jumping into a sand pit (that is likely to have cat shit in it) etc were naff as I'm just not interested in them

Then we ended up doing 2 years of dance which being very self conscious I hated.

Big but maths is important throughout life and hockey isn't if you're crap at it and loathe it.You could get the same maybe better levels of fitness doing something else that you enjoyed.Plenty of other things you could pick.PE is after all physical exercise.

I wasn't bad at hockey but hated the competitive aspect ie matches so bunked.Could have been doing rowing,cycling,the gym etc instead and keeping fit.Surely after experiencing everything in year 7 you should be able to choose something you enjoy and are actually good at.

Playing fields sell off: the Coalition has approved 21 sales in two years (10.5 pa). Labour since 1997 sold over 200 (over 15pa). So are they to be congratulated by reducing the sell-off rate by a third so quickly?

Prarieflower, did we go to the same school? ;)

School PE totally and utterly put me off all sport until my late 20s, when I discovered I quite liked cycling, hiking and skiing (I live near mountains). None of which we ever did at school.

Imagine if a maths teacher humiliated and ostracised all pupils who were not very good at maths instead of actually teaching them how to do better, encouraging them to try, praising their small improvements etc. There would be an outcry! But PE teachers (OK, well mine in an 80s comprehensive) do.

I'm going to have to re-post. My question to you is a valid one.

How are you going to organise 6 teachers getting 150 kids all doing the sports of their individual choice, based on what suits them, in 1hr 40 with changing time? Or even over an entire day?

In fact, I wish the government had sold off my school's playing fields back in the day. Would have saved me some horrible hours of so-called cross-country running.

Lesley totally agree re the PE knickers-utterly barbaric.Having to parade onto the football pitch in front of the boys at 13 and dying of embarrassment-cruel.Would rather rather have had a tracksuit on and be off rowing,cycling,at the gym etc.

Also my low level of expertise/effort just held others back.Utterly pointless hence my creeping off to the library to read and eat chocolate.

rofl at david cameron lying

he walked past a state school once i'll have you know!

So come on then please do share your big plan of how what you suggest could ever be put into practice.

Don't forget to consider cost, staffing, having enough children in each session to make it practical, space, equipment, fitting it into the timetable

daves big society innit

How are you going to organise 6 teachers getting 150 kids all doing the sports of their individual choice, based on what suits them, in 1hr 40 with changing time? Or even over an entire day?

Schools could tie in with gyms more, offer things like Zumba or whatever trend is of the moment but with the cuts parents would need to fund it. David Cameron is talking shite and deflecting from the real issues in the country.

My experience of trying to and being able to at grass roots level compete/pay ended as a child due to being the wrong nationality and for my dc for being from a scummy mummy grass roots level

Sport pays for itself but it means accepting scummy people.

The comments on page one sum up so much. 'I've got something you haven't got, and you can't have it! Why should I share? It's MIIIIINE'

Ruby well you could link up with the local gym and get a cheap prog going(sure they'd be glad of the extra cash in off peek times).Kids could pay a small fee,only TAs would need to stay if red tape dealt was with and all kids had followed the free training progs they offered.They could follow individual progs and beat their personal best.After getting good/fitness levels up on the running,rowing machines etc you never know it could lead to confidence and switching to the track/water.Maybe they could go on their own and get a card stamped if red tape was relaxed.

Cycling hmmm tricky but I'm sure you could deal with it somehow(schools being given a small collection of bikes or have a scheme like the bike to work scheme),rowing perhaps they could pay private schools a small fee to use the facilities,Zumba,Pilates,martial arts get people into the school during the day to run classes(small fee perhaps)etc,etc.Some of these happen on a small scale in our school,v sporty head.

Yes it would take cash as well as creativity but DC is on cloud cuckoo land if he thinks he can change things without stumping up some cash.

PE teachers humiliating children is an issue with the teachers not the subject. Ask around and I am sure that you will find plenty of people humiliated by their English, maths or any other subject teachers. Some teachers aren't very good but that doesn't mean to say that you don't do the subject because of it. Surely it means you get better teachers?

No PE may not be as important as maths (although that is debatable to a certain extent) but it is no less important than physics was to me. I would have been far better off with putting more effort into sport than physics.

Prarieflower, tbh I used to bunk off most PE lessons. Can completely relate to creeping off to the library. I don't think has done me any harm in the long run. I am a healthy weight for my height and have been exercising and doing some sort of martial art now for the last ten years.

If I had a DD and the school tried to make her wear PE knickers they would have to get past me first.

Nit are you talking about the idea of sharing with private schools?

That's great if schools have a gym close by even then not very practical. We have 2 small gyms, both with a full range of classes etc during school hours. They have 3 large secondary schools which by your plans they would also have to cater for.

Your plans are lovely but your living in a dream world.

ruby, yes. The lovely charitable private schools.

Lesley I have a dd and rest assured no way on earth is she enduring PE knickers at 13.