Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Re A Penalty Charge Received By My Son On Train...

101 replies

arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 20:02

In June, my 12 year old son ran for his train and forgot to tap his Oyster card. Immediately that he got on train he was approached by a ticket inspector. Son reached into blazer pocket whilst explaining he hadn't tapped in as the train was there and if he missed this train, he would be late for school and be given a detention. Son then discovers his Oyster card isn't in his pocket! Inspector says "don't worry, on this occasion it will be a caution...get your Mum to write in to this address" as he gives my son the penalty notice. My son gets off the train at the next stop rather than continuing his journey because he felt scared and humiliated. And yes was late for school! I appealed the ticket because of what the inspector had led my son to believe and if they were to look at his Oyster card history it would become clear that he was not a fare evader and perhaps the inspector could/should have exercised discretion.

The appeal was unsuccessful and here is a quote from one of the letters I received "Whilst we acknowledge that it is not your responsibility as the legal parent/guardian to make payment, we advise you that the amount outstanding £20.00 must be forwarded within 14 days of the date of this letter in order to avoid further debt recovery action being taken which will incur an additional admin fee of £20.00. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GET THIS FROM A 12 YEAR OLD??

So I bit the bullet and tried to pay online and was unable to..website said no and referred me to payment telephone line. This is quite a busy line and I tried on at least three occasions to get through including last night. Finally this morning I got through only to be told fine had increased to £40 at 12.01am today! I had miscalulated the 14 days. The call centre were unable to take a payment of £20 and I was not prepared to pay £40.

Today a sent a payment of £20 via recorded delivery saying if they deposit the cheque they are accepting that this matter is settled.

AIBU?

OP posts:
greenplastictrees · 07/08/2012 20:05

No, not at all. Sounds like a complete over reaction. I would have been inclined to take it further and not pay. On the other hand it's more hassle than its worth!

I wouldn't pay the extra £20 though - keep a record of what happened with the inspector, dates of telephone calls, e.t.c...and if they get back in touch write a strongly worded letter.

bogeyface · 07/08/2012 20:29

Can you print off your internet history to prove you tried to pay?

Original poster
arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 20:46

Crikey I hadn't thought of that! Will look now, but to be honest having spoke with two different agents this am (yes I managed to get through twice this am!) the first being reasonable and the second agent just wasn't interested in what I had to say. In fact she told me I could have paid it at any station...wasn't aware of that.

I've trawled the net to see how these fines are imposed on children/U16's given the parent/guardian are not deemed responsible for the fine!

OP posts:
Original poster
arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 20:49

My computer's history goes back 5 days (( I tried to pay before this, however I could produce my phone bill with their number...what a saga!

Make sure your child has their travelcard!!

OP posts:
SchrodingersMew · 07/08/2012 20:54

I'm pretty sure under 16's can't get into debt. Not sure on that though, I just remember being 15 and having my bank keep trying to charge me £10, each time I phoned up and they told me that they were in the wrong as under 16's can't be held liable for debt.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/08/2012 20:54

Sorry, I think YABU. Your son was trying to travel without paying his fare.

You had 14 days to pay and you obviously left it to the very last minute to try.

Suck it up and pay (and get your son to pay you back)

LadySybildeChocolate · 07/08/2012 20:56

There was an article in the Metro a couple of months ago where a boy had done exactly the same thing.

BackforGood · 07/08/2012 21:01

I'm inclined to agree with It'sAllGoingToBeFine - Unfortunately your son was travelling on the train without having paid. You knew this on the day. You chose to leave it for a while before doing anything about it, so the fine goes up - it's the way it works - like parking tickets or speeding ticket and so forth. Annoying when it happens to you, but fares for everyone will be a lot higher if they don't fine people who don't pay, and then encourage people to pay the fines once they get them.

A1980 · 07/08/2012 21:02

He is being treated no differently from any adult who travelled without paying his fare. IMO it's fare enough.

Also he shouldn't be so late for his train in the morning or without his oyster card. he's 12: check that he has it and make sure he leaves on time.

WorraLiberty · 07/08/2012 21:05

You are responsible for the fine and you would have signed to that affect when you ordered and paid for the Oyster in the first place I'm afraid.

diddl · 07/08/2012 21:10

So he didn´t forget to "tap" his card as he didn´t have it with him?

So he lied?

Original poster
arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 21:35

Diddl..he genuinely thought Oyster card was in his blazer pocket, his train is sometimes early... sometimes late...he made a dash for it without checking his pocket. IMO he didn't lie..he didn't know his little sister had taken his Oyster out of his pocket to play shops with!

WorraLiberty...inclined to agree

A1980...he wasn't late for the train...it was early. He has to catch that train as the next train arrives after the start of school. I feel an adult may have communicated their case better than my son, but an adult would not face a detention!

Backforgood...I applied for replacement Oyster on 28th June when PCN issued and sent appeal r/d 29th June. We have been on holiday and I mentioned this in appeal letter. Upon return from holiday I tried to pay online and have called payment line at least three times including last night.Got through this morning 9 hours after additional £20 applied.

Of course my preference would have been for the inspector to use discretion and allow my son the opportunity to pay his fare. As I said his Oyster history would show regular top ups and tap ins at the station he got on at. The Inspector also said that it was a "caution". A term my son would not be familar with so.........

OP posts:
danteV · 07/08/2012 21:40

I am confused. Did he forget to swipe or not swipe because he didn't have time?

Original poster
arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 21:57

Dantev...I doubt he thought about swiping as once he saw train was there he would have legged it for train. Once on train he checked his pocket and discovered his Oyster card wasn't there.

As I've said he's not a fare evader, had only just turned 12 a couple of days previous to PCN and ran for a train because in his mind the consequences of missing it would be massive in his world.

OP posts:
mayorquimby · 07/08/2012 22:01

They should have a better system in place to allow you to pay the fine but other than that I'd side with the train company.

ThreeWheelsGood · 07/08/2012 22:15

If he's twelve doesn't he get free Oyster journeys? Or has that changed now?

WMittens · 07/08/2012 22:16

Agree with ItsAllGoingToBeFine and diddl, your son could have been there for the earliest known time that the train has left in the past, and you could have paid the fine any time in the two weeks given before the amount went up.

It's all a learning experience, I'm guessing he won't forget his Oyster card or be late for his train in future.

LilyCocoplatt · 07/08/2012 22:16

I also think YABU, if your son is old enough to travel to school alone he should be old enough to make sure he has his oyster card and uses it correctly, and you admit you miscalculated the 14 day period in which it would be £20 instead of £40 so that's not the train company's fault, yes its annoying but I think you should pay the fine in full and get DS to do chores until he has worked off his debt to you.

McHappyPants2012 · 07/08/2012 22:47

If he is old enough to go on a train without an adult then he should be responsible for making sure he has his oyster card with him.

WorraLiberty · 07/08/2012 22:51

As I've said he's not a fare evader, had only just turned 12 a couple of days previous to PCN and ran for a train because in his mind the consequences of missing it would be massive in his world

I'm afraid the harsh reality is that he is a fare evader...or at least he evaded his fare on this occasion Sad

The only thing I can suggest is you log on to the Oyster website and sit and read the 'Behaviour policy' with him again.

Remind him that if he loses his right to his card (well his Zip card anyway for the free bus travel) he'll have to do voluntary/community service in order to get it back again.

It might make him think twice....and that would be far worse than an hour's detention.

WorraLiberty · 07/08/2012 22:52

ThreeWheelsGood only the buses are free...trains are reduced prices.

Railnerd · 07/08/2012 23:20

Did this happen on the train? Or the tube?

If it was on the train, which train company? First Capital Connect?

maddening · 07/08/2012 23:23

whether yanbu or yabu I would pay the additional fee then complain - these fees have a habit of going up fast - if your appeal is rejected you would prob be paying more than £40 if you let it build up while the appeal goes through

Toughasoldboots · 07/08/2012 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RubyFakeNails · 07/08/2012 23:37

£20 is the standard fine by tfl I think, I see them being given to young kids all the time.

Unfortunately he evaded his far, fine must be paid so I would just persevere with the phone line, whilst its irritating you just have to wait until you get through. If your speedometer was broken you would still have to pay the fine it's the same kind of thing.

Swipe left for the next trending thread