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AIBU?

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Original poster

Re A Penalty Charge Received By My Son On Train...

101 replies

arrgghhh · 07/08/2012 20:02

In June, my 12 year old son ran for his train and forgot to tap his Oyster card. Immediately that he got on train he was approached by a ticket inspector. Son reached into blazer pocket whilst explaining he hadn't tapped in as the train was there and if he missed this train, he would be late for school and be given a detention. Son then discovers his Oyster card isn't in his pocket! Inspector says "don't worry, on this occasion it will be a caution...get your Mum to write in to this address" as he gives my son the penalty notice. My son gets off the train at the next stop rather than continuing his journey because he felt scared and humiliated. And yes was late for school! I appealed the ticket because of what the inspector had led my son to believe and if they were to look at his Oyster card history it would become clear that he was not a fare evader and perhaps the inspector could/should have exercised discretion.

The appeal was unsuccessful and here is a quote from one of the letters I received "Whilst we acknowledge that it is not your responsibility as the legal parent/guardian to make payment, we advise you that the amount outstanding £20.00 must be forwarded within 14 days of the date of this letter in order to avoid further debt recovery action being taken which will incur an additional admin fee of £20.00. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GET THIS FROM A 12 YEAR OLD??

So I bit the bullet and tried to pay online and was unable to..website said no and referred me to payment telephone line. This is quite a busy line and I tried on at least three occasions to get through including last night. Finally this morning I got through only to be told fine had increased to £40 at 12.01am today! I had miscalulated the 14 days. The call centre were unable to take a payment of £20 and I was not prepared to pay £40.

Today a sent a payment of £20 via recorded delivery saying if they deposit the cheque they are accepting that this matter is settled.

AIBU?

OP posts:
DukeHumfrey · 08/08/2012 18:16

Naysa - you wouldn't be fare dodging. You should pay for your ticket of course, but I see no reason for charging you a penalty.

Unfortunately railway companies see it differently. I was once done for fare dodging when I'd tried to pay at the station (machine broken) and tried to pay the guard (didn't have machine).

Lucyellensmum99 · 08/08/2012 18:17

But the thing is dragon, the guy was being totally out of order, the girl clearly had her ticket, she genuinely didn't realise and had been allowed to travel before. The point of the thing was, she wanted to get back to london (over 50 miles away) to get home for her birthday, there wasn't another coach until the next day - he was being a jobsworth by not allowing her to travel. Yes, he was correct in asking for the card and making a Hmm face and pointing out to her that she needed the card, but was not willing to make any concessions whatsoever - its hardly a shining example of customer service. I didn't argue with him, i asked him why she couldnt travel, he knew i was offering to pay the rest of her fair, i simply asked him to phone his superior to ask if she could travel this time and he said he would let it go. The student was very grateful, poor girl. That is why God invented discretion!

Lucyellensmum99 · 08/08/2012 18:18

Our station is often unmanned, maybe that is why i have never been told its a problem to get on the train without a ticket. I would have assumed that if it was, one of the lovely inspectors would have mentioned it by now. Thankfully we have perfectly nice inspectors on our line.

Lucyellensmum99 · 08/08/2012 18:19

Maybe i'm not challenged because im a naice respectable train traveller and don't LOOK like a train dodger Grin

mayorquimby · 08/08/2012 18:24

She had paid the proper price, had paid for the travel card so he, imo, was in the wrong and being a teensy bit petty, but hey, if it makes him feel better about himself......

Seeing as neither you or the driver ever saw her student card you can't say with absolute certainty that she did pay the proper price. Which is precisely why he was right to request she produce it and why she should have been in a position to do so.
From you're telling of the story he's the only one who wasn't in the wrong and only relented when you started discussing making life difficult for him with his employers.

mayorquimby · 08/08/2012 18:27

"That is why God invented discretion"

Even though earlier on you were stating that their role is not to be judge and jury? Surely if you want them to employ discretion you are asking them to make a value judgment on the merits of individual cases, which is essentially acting as judge and jury.

VicarGoingForGoldInKungFu · 08/08/2012 18:41

blimey. im a cop and i think these comments are harsh!
the lad is 12. 12 years olds forget things sometimes, it doesnt sound like deliberate fare dodging.

that said, i do think that its the parents responsibility to ensure that if the card isnt available for whatever reason that there is some contingency plan (ie - money!) to pay,
i also think that since the fine was issued and there is a good period of time in which to pay it again that comes down to parental responsibility - hard, but 14 days is a long time in which to pay a fine. i would say that if it wasnt paid within that time then thats tough luck.....

hard lesson to learn i agree,
but i would ensure he has money as a contingency to pay for the fare in case of loss of card
and
pay any fines promptly. they get bigger the longer you leave them. put it down to experience and ensure it doesnt happen again.
id pay and let it go, but learn from it to ensure it doesnt happen again.

diddl · 08/08/2012 18:45

He got on a train with no card & no money.

Hard not to read deliberate into that.

Not sure he wasn´t just "fined" the price of the journey, though.

mayorquimby · 08/08/2012 18:55

12 years olds forget things sometimes, it doesnt sound like deliberate fare dodging.

Agree completely. I have no problem with saying the kid didn't do it on purpose etc. my only issue was with the op or others who are looking for someone else to blame or think It was the inspectors role to decide that this kid was an obvious good egg and shouldn't be fined per the rules.
It was an accident/moment of forgetfulness but those still have consequences.

theyarebetter · 08/08/2012 19:00

LucyEllen you usually just tick a box when buying online to say "I have a student card". You have to take it with you to show the driver, to show you have one, that's how it works!

The check isn't when you buy, it's when you travel.
Or, like someone said above, what would stop your friend, with a card, buying your ticket for you, without a card, every time you travelled?

I think the driver let her go, to stop you paying for what he recognised as a clear con artist, he was doing you a favour!

How... convenient that the poor crying girl forgot her ticket on her only birthday. Was her sick grandmother going to be the guest of honour at her party?

verydubiousface.

You know, I bet she was a heroin addict.

diddl · 08/08/2012 19:04

Thinking on-don´t school children get free travel-or does it still depend on how far away from the school you are?

Lucyellensmum99 · 08/08/2012 19:09

No she was a student in my department . I knew her by sight. She hadn't even mentioned her birthday to the driver. I had to listen to her and her friends discussing with much excitement her birthday .id rather be naive and help someone out than think the worst of people . She had offered to run to the cash point but driver said no. The people in the wrong were the previous driver s

Original poster
arrgghhh · 08/08/2012 19:17

Wow...lots of responses, thank you even to those who think IABU. Good/relevant points made and apologies to those who this has resurrected horrible memories for.

diddl...I didn't say he had no cash, he did but was not offered the opportunity to pay on the train.

Whilst I appreciate the advise of sanctions/repayment, my son is one of five and I think it's safe to say I won't need to remind him or check his pocket on a school morning, his method of repayment will be reminder enough. ;-))

OP posts:
Railnerd · 08/08/2012 19:20

Which train line did this happen on?

mayorquimby · 08/08/2012 19:21

She was the only one in the wrong IMO. I'd imagine that the driver can request to see identification, but I doubt that it's mandatory that they request to see identification every time.
Where as the terms of purchasing a student ticket is that you have to be in a position to produce identification when requested. She travelled when she was not in a position to do so.
Also while you might no her to see as a student that doesn't mean she's applied for and possesses a valid travel card

mayorquimby · 08/08/2012 19:22

*Know

Original poster
arrgghhh · 08/08/2012 19:37

Railnerd...it was Southern

OP posts:
Serenitysutton · 08/08/2012 19:55

Hold on... They have said, in writing that you don't have to pay his fare. Providing theyre are no consequences (ie cancelling his oyster) theN. Why bother paying? He's learnt his lesson job, he doesnt even need to know you didn't pay it.

scummymummy · 08/08/2012 20:05

I hate oyster cards. Love them in theory but in practice they are a f'ing nightmare. My sons lose theirs all the time and there is no way to pay a child's fare on the bus anymore. If you don't have your oyster you have to pay full adult fare. Their travel costs rise from £0 to £8 per day plus £10 to replace the oyster. It costs me more money than they have pocket money to dock every single time. Hideous ill feeling descends on the house of scum at these all too frequent moments, so they are reluctant to inform me of the loss, meaning that they either fare dodge (I suspect) or spend all their lunch money on bus fares. They get their scattiness from me and I frequently genuinely forget to tap in at my station and then cost myself a f'ing fortune at the other end as for some reason I rarely forget to tap out. All sympathies to your son, arrgghhh.

scummymummy · 08/08/2012 20:08

p.s. I think you sound lovely, lucyellensmum99.

Ephiny · 08/08/2012 20:20

I think Oyster cards are fabulous, personally. If you have a travelcard you don't have to touch in/out unless there's a barrier (I did occasionally forget too when using PAYG).

I'm surprised there isn't an option of paying a child's cash fare though, that does seem odd.

feckingnora · 08/08/2012 22:08

Lucyellensmum99 "Maybe i'm not challenged because im a naice respectable train traveller and don't LOOK like a train dodger "

I think you will find that, going on what I have read today, the ticket inspectors probably can not be arsed to deal with you.
you sound like a complete pita and I personally would just let you get on with and hope that you trip yourself up soon!

MAYBELATERNOWIMBUSY · 18/08/2012 19:45

poe faced the lot off you , ! he is a kid , discretion is for the insp.( A CREEP !) and, Boris says "get out your cars , best tnsp. system" , i"d award that young fella a 50% increase in weekly spending money for being such a proper chap !

GreenEggsAndNichts · 18/08/2012 20:34

I, too, have noticed the sadistic way a very few ticket checkers act towards young people. One on East Midlands Trains gave a teenager a dressing-down for several minutes. Now, what his situation was, I have no idea. However, I'm fairly certain she would not have addressed an adult the way she was speaking to him.

I do understand what nora means by "scaring them a bit" (have paraphrased, sorry if that's taken the wrong way). I wasn't an angel as a early teen and I know the one time I was caught doing something I ought not to have been doing, the adult in question managed to scare me enough that I didn't try doing it again. He wasn't over the top about it, but you know, sometimes a situation calls for it.

I also tend to agree that he should have been granted leniency this time. Especially if he has a history of payment and no previous warnings.

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/08/2012 21:55

As this has been dragged up from the depths.

I used the train during the week to visit friends. At the terminal 5 (yup 5) teenagers ran through the barriers. Just because they are teenagers does not mean that they are not fare dodgers.

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