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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

727 replies

sea74 · 07/08/2012 10:15

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

OP posts:
NarkedRaspberry · 07/08/2012 12:31

There are decent hardworking families near me who can only dream of having their own goat.

Belmo · 07/08/2012 12:33

I wonder if there should be some sort of tax 'opt out' option. So you can opt-out of your own personal taxes being used to pay for anyone else's benefits, but can then never claim benefits yourself. Or moan.

I get CTC and housing benefit, and I couldn't actually give the slightest fuck what anyone makes of that. As far as I'm concerned it's my taxes I'm spending, which I paid for ten years and will do for many years in the future.

I'd opt out of defense and faith schools.

SchrodingersMew · 07/08/2012 12:33

Damn them! We have many (lovely) immigrants where I love, off to go steal their goats, I am entitled to it, the scrounging bastards. :o

wankpants · 07/08/2012 12:35

It's all gotten a bit hysterical around here.

I think people like bytheway's sister take the absolute piss and there should be something to stop this. No idea what.

It's quite a different situation if it's the first accident or your circumstances change beyond your control.

Belmo · 07/08/2012 12:35

I don't have a goat but my next door neighbour has a pig.

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/08/2012 12:36

Just found the 'chicken thread'. It's reminded me of a recent bollocking I received from a 'friend' when I tried to explain that I didn't always have the funds to be 'ethical'.

Maybe I was wrong to have a child. Hmm

I was a single mum for many years.

SchrodingersMew · 07/08/2012 12:38

Belmo Is it one of those cute teeny pigs? I want one!

Pickles77 · 07/08/2012 12:40

What country are you from op

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 12:41

There is nothing wrong with being a single mum.
However men should not have children they are not willing to support. Even if your not a couple. There is also nothing wrong with being on benefits, but men should be supporting their kids still.

Abody · 07/08/2012 12:42

Actually I do get CB and tax credits. I hope to pay back way more than i've taken over my lifetime, but I know others can't. I have absolutely no idea what other circumstances may lead people to deliberately have children while completely state-dependent. What if you're running out of time fertility wise? What if you have no real possibility of EVER being self-supporting? Should you just not have kids? Is reproducing only for the fit & wealthy? Or those who manage to be fit & wealthy while still young?

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 12:43

"Because in this stupid country, the government pays people to have children they can't afford. So people don't have to take responsibility for their choices as they know the working taxpayer will. And having kids can be very lucrative, especially if you have 3+ and don't work = child benefit, child tax credits, housing benefit (or council house) for "overcrowding" (having more children than your house can fit) and all the other little benefits etc etc. The sooner the government caps child benefits at 2 (the replacement rate) and stops rewarding people for having children they cannot afford when they are already on benefits the better!"

^ This, basically.

Although I don't think that the OP expressed her point of view in a particularly articulate way, she has a strong and valid point, as does the poster whose words I have quoted above, in my opinion.

It seems to me (another unpopular view, no doubt) that a pretty large chunk of parents in this country have an astonishing sense of entitlement, evidenced by a great many posts on this thread, a couple of which I have reported as abusive. Honestly, taking the p*, one after the other and then telling him/her to "fuck off", err what?

No money and fancy having kids? Hey, go ahead and have them anyway, the tax payer will ALWAYS support you. Jeez. No wonder we have such a shocking reputation abroad.

usualsuspect · 07/08/2012 12:46

Yay! we got a 'sense of entitlement'

maras2 · 07/08/2012 12:47

Pickles.She's from Italy.

Hammy02 · 07/08/2012 12:48

Boils down to benefits being there for when you fall on hard times and need them for a period of time. No-one should do something knowing full well that they will need to tap the tax payer to bail them out.

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 12:51

Fucking hell lapisblue. Can you now explain ANY evidence you have for what you are saying? It is not huge amounts of people. It is a tiny minority of people. Stop blaming poor people who are really struggling.

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 12:51

I'm also concerned by the rather horrible BNP-type "go back to your own country" responses - horrible. Just horrible.

And usual suspect - the sense of entitlement thing: It just gives a bad rap to decent parents who don't think that the sun shines on them because they have had children and are first in line for everything.

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/08/2012 12:52

Tax credits is basically the governmet having to subsidise crap wages as far as I can see. People aren't automatically entitled to a high wage, but they should be entitled to a 'living wage'.

If so many companies weren't so tight and only interested in the bottom line, they would pay their staff more. The minimum wage is being milked during the recession. Why pay more if you can get away with paying the minimum? Then there are problems with companies reducing hours, pay cuts and redundancies!

If people were all paid a living wage there would be much less need for tax credits.

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/08/2012 12:53

I meant government!

MarianneM · 07/08/2012 12:53

I'm also concerned by the rather horrible BNP-type "go back to your own country" responses - horrible. Just horrible.

I know, and the same posters berate others for being judgmental Hmm

GoranisGod · 07/08/2012 12:54

I think the op is deliberately shit stirring but I think she does have a point.

Of course we shouldnt demonise single parents-I was brought up in a single parent family,mum always worked etc-but neither should we shrug our shoulders at feckless people-men and women-who choose to have kids when they have no means of supporting them.

If there was no benefits system there do you really think they would have them>-would they fuck! they continue to do so because they know someone else will pick up the tab.....

Denise34 · 07/08/2012 12:55

I agree with the OP and others. I wonder what is going to happen to this country when the terminally unemployed are having far more children than the gainfully employed. It seems to be that the film "" is becoming true to life.

sickofincompetenceandbullshit · 07/08/2012 12:56

I dunno. I am the single parent of a 'suprise' child. I work bloody hard to ensure I can afford to support him, despite having got pregnant quite young.

I do agree that some people have more children that they can't afford - I have a friend who has 4 kids, 3 were unplanned, and then she complains about affording school uniform. I must admit to being a bit Hmm as contraception can fail (as I know), but you have a responsbility to the kids you have to not have 3 more if you can't afford them.

I have another friend with five kids, all of whom have genetic disorders/ various disabilities. Her and her partner don't work and are going to be totally screwed by the benefits cap. I am really sorry for her for that and don't think she should be penalised retrospectively, but every time she complains about needing more respite etc., I do feel a twinge of 'why did you carry on having babies then, when it was pretty obvious by baby number three that something in your genes will continue to apply to future children?'

This feeling obviously doesn't apply to those who have kids and then lose jobs etc. It's more that once you're in a situation when money is already tight, surely being really really really careful with contraception is the only responsible thing to do. I haven't got pregnant again, despite being desperate for another because a) I wouldn't cope, as my son is disabled and b) I can't afford it.

Maybe I am just jealous.

icecold · 07/08/2012 12:56

There is nothing wrong with being a single mum.
However men should not have children they are not willing to support. Even if your not a couple. There is also nothing wrong with being on benefits, but men should be supporting their kids still

THIS^^ and THIS

Tax credits is basically the governmet having to subsidise crap wages as far as I can see. People aren't automatically entitled to a high wage, but they should be entitled to a 'living wage'

ouryve · 07/08/2012 12:57

My children live off Biscuits. Lots and lots of yummy Biscuits.

icecold · 07/08/2012 12:57

marianne

1 poster has said 'go back to your own country'

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